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Re: climate change, was Re: Floppies

From "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.misc
Subject Re: climate change, was Re: Floppies
Date 2025-09-30 09:54 +0200
Message-ID <9uesqlx4ta.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> (permalink)
References (11 earlier) <tpaqqlxq7u.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <10be5vp$32fs3$1@dont-email.me> <85cldkpsu9ii87ur5q4ndc2a8ercbn4mad@4ax.com> <10behdj$35i1j$4@dont-email.me> <mk0tnmF77pcU2@mid.individual.net>

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On 2025-09-30 04:31, rbowman wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Sep 2025 18:59:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> - we can actually do something about it, when nothing has ever made it
>> change in the past.
> 
> That's what worries me. When it comes to tweaking the environment humanity
> has a history of fucking up royally with the best of intentions. Neal
> Stephenson's 'Termination Shock' make the case that when you start
> geoengineering there will be winners and losers.
> 
> Back in the '90s when 'global warming' was still current Pournelle & Niven
> had a novel with the theme that the only thinking holding off the next ice
> age was anthropogenic global warming. I forget the title.

I have read one on those ideas. People run cars on limited alcohol. Part 
of humanity survives in orbit, and launch craft to harvest "atmosphere", 
but one of then falls down. They refit a craft from a museum to return 
to orbit.

Chatgpt to the rescue: Fallen Angels by Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle, 
and Michael Flynn.

«The book you remembered is *Fallen Angels* by Larry Niven, Jerry 
Pournelle, and Michael Flynn. ([Justapedia][1])

Here’s how it matches your details:

* In *Fallen Angels*, people living in orbital space stations (“Space 
Habs”) need to harvest nitrogen from Earth’s atmosphere using “scoop 
ships”. ([Justapedia][1])
* One such mission is shot down; the pilots crash‐land in the 
ice/glaciers in North America. ([Justapedia][1])
* On Earth, the society is anti‐technology; they are persecuted, 
deprived of many resources, etc. ([Justapedia][1])
* A group of science fiction fans (an underground pro‐technology group) 
steps in to help. ([tnfff.org][2])
* They discover there’s an old rocket in a museum (or a rocket which has 
been refurbished or masked as nonfunctional) that might be used to 
return them to orbit. ([Explained Today][3])

One small correction: you mentioned “people run cars on limited alcohol” 
— I don’t recall that exact element from *Fallen Angels*. It might be 
conflated with something else, or else that detail is present but less 
central (or I might be mis‐remembering). The core storyline, though, is 
a match with what you described.

If you like, I can check whether there’s another very similar novel with 
*all* your details (including the alcohol bit) in case you were 
conflating two books. Do you want me to do that?

[1]: 
https://justapedia.org/wiki/Fallen_Angels_%28Niven%2C_Pournelle%2C_and_Flynn_novel%29?utm_source=chatgpt.com 
"Fallen Angels (Niven, Pournelle, and Flynn novel) - Justapedia"
[2]: 
https://tnfff.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/N3FReview202202.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com 
"The N3F"
[3]: 
https://everything.explained.today/Fallen_Angels_%28Niven%2C_Pournelle%2C_and_Flynn_novel%29/?utm_source=chatgpt.com 
"Fallen Angels (Niven, Pournelle, and Flynn novel) explained"»


Try: «Back in the '90s when 'global warming' was still current Pournelle 
& Niven had a novel with the theme that the only thinking holding off 
the next ice age was anthropogenic global warming. I forget the title.»


«The novel you’re thinking of is *Fallen Angels* (1991) by Larry Niven, 
Jerry Pournelle, and Michael Flynn. ([Wikipedia][1])

Here are how your memories match the book, and a few clarifications:

---

### What matches very well

* The novel’s plot is that radical environmental‐Green government 
policies to reduce pollution and greenhouse gases, in an effort to 
combat global warming, actually trigger a new ice age. ([Explained 
Today][2])
* There is a surviving orbital society (space stations, lunar facility) 
that depends on atmospheric “scooping” (harvesting nitrogen from Earth’s 
upper atmosphere). ([Wikipedia][1])
* Part of the plot involves a scoopship being shot down, astronauts 
crashing in icy, glacier‐ridden land, and being rescued by a group of 
science fiction fans who are part of an underground pro‐technology 
movement. ([Explained Today][2])
* There *is* a museum rocket (or refurbishment of a museum piece/old 
rocket) involved in planning a return to orbit. ([Wikipedia][1])

---

### What might have been slightly conflated or remembered a bit differently

* You said “people run cars on limited alcohol” — I didn’t find a direct 
reference to cars running on alcohol in *Fallen Angels*. But there *are* 
hardships of technology, fuel, infrastructure etc. The detail about 
moonshine/alcohol shows up in a different context: people forced into 
slavery and having to use moonshine liquor to pay fines, but that’s not 
about fueling cars. ([Wikipedia][1])

---

If you want, I can try to find all the editions/translations to see if 
there’s one that includes even more of your remembered elements (like 
the alcohol‐fuel part), just to check for subtle differences. Do you 
want me to do that?

[1]: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_Angels_%28Niven%2C_Pournelle%2C_and_Flynn_novel%29?utm_source=chatgpt.com 
"Fallen Angels (Niven, Pournelle, and Flynn novel)"
[2]: 
https://everything.explained.today/Fallen_Angels_%28Niven%2C_Pournelle%2C_and_Flynn_novel%29/?utm_source=chatgpt.com 
"Fallen Angels (Niven, Pournelle, and Flynn novel) explained"»

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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Re: Floppies The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-23 12:20 +0100
  Re: Floppies "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-23 13:42 +0200
    Re: Floppies The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-23 13:36 +0100
      Re: Floppies Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-23 15:24 +0100
        Re: Floppies The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-23 17:23 +0100
        Re: Floppies Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-09-23 09:51 -0700
        Re: Floppies "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-28 14:29 +0200
      Re: Floppies "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-28 14:25 +0200
        Re: Floppies Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2025-09-28 14:45 +0200
          Re: Floppies Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2025-09-29 02:30 +0200
            Re: Floppies Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-09-28 18:15 -0700
              Re: Floppies c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-28 23:17 -0400
              Re: Floppies The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-29 10:15 +0100
              Meta: Off-topic cross-posts (was: Re: Floppies) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-29 11:05 +0100
                Re: Meta: Off-topic cross-posts The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-29 11:38 +0100
                Far Right = Conservative Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2025-09-30 07:06 +0200
                Re: Far Right = Conservative c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-30 01:17 -0400
              Re: Floppies "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-29 14:27 +0200
                Re: Floppies Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2025-09-30 06:24 +0200
                Re: Floppies "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-30 09:41 +0200
        Re: Floppies The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-28 15:16 +0100
          Re: Floppies "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-29 14:31 +0200
            Re: Floppies The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-29 15:44 +0100
              climate change, was Re: Floppies Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2025-09-29 12:54 -0400
                Re: climate change, was Re: Floppies "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-29 19:14 +0200
                Re: climate change, was Re: Floppies The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-29 19:00 +0100
                Re: climate change, was Re: Floppies "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-29 21:54 +0200
                Re: climate change, was Re: Floppies The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-29 21:11 +0100
                Re: climate change, was Re: Floppies Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2025-09-29 17:02 -0400
                Re: climate change, was Re: Floppies The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-29 18:59 +0100
                Re: climate change, was Re: Floppies Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2025-09-29 18:17 -0400
                Re: climate change Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-30 00:14 +0100
                Re: climate change rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-30 02:42 +0000
                Re: climate change The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-30 10:15 +0100
                Re: climate change Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2025-09-30 21:11 +1000
                Re: climate change Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-10-01 03:53 +0000
                Re: climate change Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2025-09-30 02:08 -0400
                Re: climate change Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2025-09-30 16:46 +1000
                Re: climate change The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-30 10:18 +0100
                Re: climate change Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2025-09-30 23:09 -0400
                Re: climate change ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2025-10-01 04:03 +0000
                Re: climate change The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.com> - 2025-10-04 15:06 -0400
                Re: climate change The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-05 10:05 +0100
                Re: climate change rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-30 20:55 +0000
                Re: climate change "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-01 09:59 +0200
                Re: climate change The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-30 10:13 +0100
                Re: climate change Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2025-09-30 19:50 -0400
                Re: climate change Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2025-10-01 11:36 +1000
                Re: climate change Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2025-09-30 22:32 -0400
                Re: climate change Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2025-10-01 15:01 +1000
                Re: climate change The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-01 09:17 +0100
                Re: climate change Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2025-10-01 15:45 -0400
                Re: climate change Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-10-01 17:33 -0700
                Re: climate change The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-02 11:44 +0100
                Re: climate change The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-02 11:40 +0100
                Re: climate change The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-01 09:16 +0100
                Re: climate change Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-10-01 09:41 -0700
                Re: climate change Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-10-01 03:53 +0000
                Re: climate change, was Re: Floppies The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-30 10:00 +0100
                Re: climate change, was Re: Floppies nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-09-30 13:20 +0200
                Re: climate change, was Re: Floppies The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-30 12:50 +0100
                Re: climate change, was Re: Floppies rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-30 02:31 +0000
                Re: climate change, was Re: Floppies "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-30 09:54 +0200
                Re: climate change, was Re: Floppies rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-30 20:52 +0000
                Re: climate change, was Re: Floppies "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-01 00:30 +0200
                Re: climate change, was Re: Floppies The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-30 10:27 +0100
  Re: Floppies Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2025-09-23 21:36 +0100

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