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Re: KDE Goes Wayland

From John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc
Subject Re: KDE Goes Wayland
Date 2025-12-15 09:39 -0800
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <20251215093957.00004b4c@gmail.com> (permalink)
References (1 earlier) <Y2adnbK3aa3lLK70nZ2dnZfqnPqdnZ2d@giganews.com> <mpi9b4Fo7f6U2@mid.individual.net> <10h13uq$2b64m$10@dont-email.me> <10hj8ms$3qr8r$6@dont-email.me> <wwvsede6462.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On Sat, 13 Dec 2025 10:56:37 +0000
Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> >> MAC OS-X worked fine without [X11].  
> >
> > It actually did have it included, right to this day.  
> 
> macOS has not included X11 for over a decade.

The comparison isn't very indicative, anyway. OSX included X11 support
because NeXTSTEP had, but NeXTSTEP had it because it was in the "Unix
business workstation" market and it would've been stupid *not* to be
compatible with the dominant display-server standard just because they
had their own that they liked better.

Even on NeXSTEP, though, I'm not sure that it ever saw a lot of use,
since the native tools for building GUI applications were much better
(if you could cope with Objective-C;) and when it got around to OSX it
was little more than a novelty, as Mac users unsurprisingly preferred
to run Mac software. Which, for the most part, it did perfectly well.

A better comparison would be a hypothetical scenario in which Apple
decided that the underlying frameworks in classic MacOS had significant
security holes (which they did) and were unsuitable for a cooperative
multi-tasking, multi-user OS (which they were,) and that it was there-
fore in need of a ground-up redesign...

...but instead of a concerted effort to make the transition reasonably
seamless, they got about 70% of the core functionality, fudged some of
the remainder, made breaking changes to some more in accordance with a
whole different set of ideas about how the GUI should work, and replied
to user and developer complaints with patronizing lectures about how
You Don't Need That and The New Way Is Much Better Actually, You Sheep.

Which, in a post-iPad world, would actually be a very typically Apple
thing to do - but which is *not* the kind of thing freenix users are
used to putting up with. And unlike proprietary OSes controlled by a
single corporation, freenix users have the option to tell them where to
stick it.

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Thread

KDE Goes Wayland Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-12-05 21:26 +0000
  Re: KDE Goes Wayland c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-05 23:30 -0500
    Re: KDE Goes Wayland rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-06 08:55 +0000
      Re: KDE Goes Wayland c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-06 04:20 -0500
        Re: KDE Goes Wayland The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-06 11:30 +0000
          Re: KDE Goes Wayland Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-14 01:48 +0000
            Re: KDE Goes Wayland rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-14 02:00 +0000
        Re: KDE Goes Wayland rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-06 19:58 +0000
        Re: KDE Goes Wayland "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-07 19:36 +0100
          Re: KDE Goes Wayland rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-07 19:09 +0000
      Re: KDE Goes Wayland Lester Thorpe <lt@gnu.rocks> - 2025-12-06 09:38 +0000
      Re: KDE Goes Wayland The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-06 11:27 +0000
        Re: KDE Goes Wayland rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-06 20:23 +0000
          Re: KDE Goes Wayland The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-07 11:35 +0000
            Re: KDE Goes Wayland rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-07 19:04 +0000
        Re: KDE Goes Wayland Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-13 08:38 +0000
          Re: KDE Goes Wayland Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-13 10:56 +0000
            Re: KDE Goes Wayland John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-15 09:39 -0800
              Re: KDE Goes Wayland vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2025-12-15 18:12 +0000
    Re: KDE Goes Wayland Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-12-06 15:44 +0000
    Re: KDE Goes Wayland kouya <kouyaheika@canithesis.org> - 2025-12-07 12:44 -0600
      Re: KDE Goes Wayland c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-07 22:08 -0500
        Re: KDE Goes Wayland The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-08 08:51 +0000
        Re: KDE Goes Wayland candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-12-08 18:40 +0000
          Re: KDE Goes Wayland Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2025-12-08 19:12 +0000
            Re: KDE Goes Wayland rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-09 01:25 +0000
            Re: KDE Goes Wayland Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-15 03:07 +0000
              Re: KDE Goes Wayland rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-15 03:52 +0000
                Re: KDE Goes Wayland Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2025-12-15 09:01 +0000
                Re: KDE Goes Wayland Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-15 22:52 +0000
          Re: KDE Goes Wayland Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-12-08 20:00 +0000
          Re: KDE Goes Wayland not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-12-09 07:30 +1000
          Re: KDE Goes Wayland The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-09 09:59 +0000
            Re: KDE Goes Wayland Farley Flud <fsquared@fsquared.linux> - 2025-12-09 11:24 +0000
              Re: KDE Goes Wayland The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-09 14:17 +0000
                Re: KDE Goes Wayland John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-09 08:15 -0800
                Re: KDE Goes Wayland Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-15 03:08 +0000
                Re: KDE Goes Wayland rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-15 04:03 +0000
                Re: KDE Goes Wayland John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-15 10:22 -0800
                Re: KDE Goes Wayland Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-15 22:53 +0000
                Re: KDE Goes Wayland "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-12-15 16:09 -0500
                Re: KDE Goes Wayland Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-12-09 19:47 +0000
              Re: KDE Goes Wayland c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-09 20:40 -0500
                Re: KDE Goes Wayland chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-12-10 10:58 -0600
                Re: KDE Goes Wayland bonkmaykr <bonkyboo@canithesis.org> - 2025-12-12 16:38 -0600
                Re: KDE Goes Wayland chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-12-15 18:16 -0600
                Re: KDE Goes Wayland vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2025-12-16 03:41 +0000
                Re: KDE Goes Wayland Farley Flud <fsquared@fsquared.linux> - 2025-12-16 11:50 +0000
                Re: KDE Goes Wayland The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-16 12:12 +0000
                Re: KDE Goes Wayland CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-12-16 09:57 -0500
                Re: KDE Goes Wayland vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2025-12-17 04:42 +0000
                Re: KDE Goes Wayland CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-12-17 09:31 -0500
                Re: KDE Goes Wayland rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-17 19:34 +0000
                Re: KDE Goes Wayland "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-18 14:49 +0100
                Re: KDE Goes Wayland vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2025-12-18 14:27 +0000
                Re: KDE Goes Wayland "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-19 21:46 +0100

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