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Groups > comp.misc > #26175 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Retrograde <fungus@amongus.com.invalid> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2024-11-25 13:34 +0000 |
| Last post | 2025-02-19 13:03 -0300 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 86 — 24 participants |
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terminal only for two weeks Retrograde <fungus@amongus.com.invalid> - 2024-11-25 13:34 +0000
Re: terminal only for two weeks D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-25 22:18 +0100
Re: terminal only for two weeks Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-25 21:52 +0000
Re: terminal only for two weeks Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2024-11-26 03:18 -0400
Re: terminal only for two weeks Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-26 21:28 +0000
Re: terminal only for two weeks yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-11-26 09:22 +0042
Re: terminal only for two weeks Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-26 21:24 +0000
Re: terminal only for two weeks candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-11-30 01:20 +0000
Re: terminal only for two weeks yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-11-30 04:22 +0042
Re: terminal only for two weeks candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-12-01 20:40 +0000
Re: terminal only for two weeks Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-30 03:52 +0000
Re: terminal only for two weeks candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-12-01 20:40 +0000
Re: terminal only for two weeks Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-01 23:24 +0000
Re: terminal only for two weeks candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-12-02 02:00 +0000
Re: terminal only for two weeks Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-02 05:41 +0000
Re: terminal only for two weeks John McCue <jmccue@qball.jmcunx.com> - 2024-11-26 03:13 +0000
Re: terminal only for two weeks D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-26 10:22 +0100
Re: terminal only for two weeks yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-11-26 12:15 +0042
Re: terminal only for two weeks D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-26 16:36 +0100
Re: terminal only for two weeks not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-11-27 07:52 +1000
Re: terminal only for two weeks D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-27 10:51 +0100
Re: terminal only for two weeks not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-11-28 06:44 +1000
Re: terminal only for two weeks yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-11-28 05:54 +0042
Re: terminal only for two weeks D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-28 10:52 +0100
Re: terminal only for two weeks not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-11-29 06:17 +1000
Re: terminal only for two weeks D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-28 22:05 +0100
Re: terminal only for two weeks yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-11-29 02:19 +0042
Re: terminal only for two weeks D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-29 10:38 +0100
Re: terminal only for two weeks D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-29 22:39 +0100
Re: terminal only for two weeks Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2024-11-26 17:57 -0400
Re: terminal only for two weeks D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-27 10:54 +0100
Re: terminal only for two weeks Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2024-11-28 01:41 -0400
Re: terminal only for two weeks Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-28 06:42 +0000
Re: terminal only for two weeks D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-28 10:56 +0100
URIs within URIs: google.com/url?q= et al. Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2024-12-20 18:42 +0000
Re: URIs within URIs: google.com/url?q= et al. Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-12-20 19:03 +0000
Re: URIs within URIs: google.com/url?q= et al. Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2024-12-22 01:39 -0400
Re: terminal only for two weeks Oregonian Haruspex <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 06:11 +0000
Re: terminal only for two weeks Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-04 06:42 +0000
Re: terminal only for two weeks candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-12-04 14:30 +0000
Re: terminal only for two weeks Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-05 01:46 +0000
Re: terminal only for two weeks not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-12-08 07:52 +1000
Re: terminal only for two weeks root <NoEMail@home.org> - 2024-12-08 14:11 +0000
Re: terminal only for two weeks Bozo User <anthk@disroot.org> - 2025-01-12 23:01 +0000
Re: terminal only for two weeks D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-13 10:46 +0100
Re: terminal only for two weeks not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-01-14 06:52 +1000
Re: terminal only for two weeks D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-14 18:54 +0100
web Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-01-16 07:55 +0000
Re: web not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-01-17 07:10 +1000
Re: web yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-01-17 04:58 +0042
Re: web anthk <anthk@openbsd.home> - 2025-03-22 21:52 +0000
Re: web Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-01-18 14:05 +0000
Re: web not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-01-19 09:09 +1000
Re: web candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-01-29 20:10 +0000
Re: web Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-04 21:42 +0000
Re: web Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> - 2025-01-19 14:47 +0000
Re: web yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-01-19 16:14 +0042
Re: web snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-19 16:05 +0000
Re: web Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-01-19 19:15 +0000
Re: web Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> - 2025-01-20 15:37 +0000
Re: web Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-01-24 18:45 +0000
Re: web news@zzo38computer.org.invalid - 2025-01-20 11:23 -0800
Re: web Dave Yeo <dave.r.yeo@gmail.com> - 2025-01-16 18:04 -0800
Re: terminal only for two weeks Bozo User <anthk@disroot.org> - 2025-01-12 23:01 +0000
Re: terminal only for two weeks yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-12-05 06:34 +0042
Re: terminal only for two weeks yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-01-16 11:42 +0042
Re: terminal only for two weeks anthk <anthk@openbsd.home> - 2025-03-22 21:52 +0000
Re: terminal only for two weeks Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2024-11-28 12:45 +0200
Re: terminal only for two weeks Bozo User <anthk@disroot.org> - 2025-01-12 23:01 +0000
Re: terminal only for two weeks Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-01-12 22:03 -0300
Re: terminal only for two weeks D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-13 10:48 +0100
Re: terminal only for two weeks Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-01-13 16:24 -0300
Re: terminal only for two weeks D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-14 18:50 +0100
Re: terminal only for two weeks Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-01-15 22:10 -0300
Re: terminal only for two weeks Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-01-16 04:15 +0000
Re: terminal only for two weeks Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2025-01-16 15:58 +1000
Re: terminal only for two weeks Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-21 05:31 +0000
Re: terminal only for two weeks Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-01-23 19:33 +0000
Re: terminal only for two weeks Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-12 13:12 -0300
Re: terminal only for two weeks Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> - 2025-02-16 20:55 +0000
Re: terminal only for two weeks Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-16 22:54 -0300
Re: terminal only for two weeks Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-16 22:56 -0300
Re: terminal only for two weeks Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-17 03:41 +0000
Re: terminal only for two weeks Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 13:02 -0300
Re: terminal only for two weeks kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-17 22:18 +0000
Re: terminal only for two weeks Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 13:03 -0300
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-05 01:46 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vir0m3$17csf$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #26237 |
On Wed, 4 Dec 2024 14:30:03 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote: > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 06:42 this Wednesday > (GMT): > >> On Wed, 4 Dec 2024 06:11:40 -0000 (UTC), Oregonian Haruspex wrote: >> >>> But eMacs is also TUI, not strictly a terminal program. >> >> It can display graphics. It has long been able to run under X11. I >> currently use a GTK build that works under Wayland. > > But does it support JS? This being Emacs, the answer would be “very likely”. But ... relevance being?
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| From | not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-08 07:52 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <6754c3a1@news.ausics.net> |
| In reply to | #26240 |
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > On Wed, 4 Dec 2024 14:30:03 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote: >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 06:42 this Wednesday >> (GMT): >>> On Wed, 4 Dec 2024 06:11:40 -0000 (UTC), Oregonian Haruspex wrote: >>> >>>> But eMacs is also TUI, not strictly a terminal program. >>> >>> It can display graphics. It has long been able to run under X11. I >>> currently use a GTK build that works under Wayland. >> >> But does it support JS? > > This being Emacs, the answer would be "very likely". > > But ... relevance being? You snipped the relevance yourself, as usual: On Wed, 4 Dec 2024 06:11:40 -0000 (UTC), Oregonian Haruspex wrote: >>>> If I could get Amazon, eBay, and my bank to work properly in >>>> EWW I wouldn't even launch a browser, ever. I don't know about Emacs, but for TUI browsers with Javascript support ELinks is one that I'm aware of. However like the experimental JS support in Netsurf it doesn't seem to be advanced enough to be useful (although unlike Netsurf, ELinks uses Mozilla's SpiderMonkey JS engine, so I'm not exactly sure what makes it so difficult to get right). -- __ __ #_ < |\| |< _#
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| From | root <NoEMail@home.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-08 14:11 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vj49do$3r1ov$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #26256 |
Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote: > > I don't know about Emacs, but for TUI browsers with Javascript > support ELinks is one that I'm aware of. However like the > experimental JS support in Netsurf it doesn't seem to be advanced > enough to be useful (although unlike Netsurf, ELinks uses Mozilla's > SpiderMonkey JS engine, so I'm not exactly sure what makes it so > difficult to get right). > I regard ELinks as worthless. At best, I hope it is a work in progress. I haven't tried Netsurf, but I have tried implementing, via jsdom, specific fetch routines for different sites of interest. I have found that even sites that contain json data do not provide consistent (across sites) methods of fetching the data. It is worse when the data are not as organized as json data, but it is distributed in unique ways for the specific site.
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| From | Bozo User <anthk@disroot.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-12 23:01 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vm1hk3$1etjc$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #26261 |
On 2024-12-08, root <NoEMail@home.org> wrote: > Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote: >> >> I don't know about Emacs, but for TUI browsers with Javascript >> support ELinks is one that I'm aware of. However like the >> experimental JS support in Netsurf it doesn't seem to be advanced >> enough to be useful (although unlike Netsurf, ELinks uses Mozilla's >> SpiderMonkey JS engine, so I'm not exactly sure what makes it so >> difficult to get right). >> > > I regard ELinks as worthless. At best, I hope it is a work in > progress. I haven't tried Netsurf, but I have tried implementing, > via jsdom, specific fetch routines for different sites of interest. > I have found that even sites that contain json data do not provide > consistent (across sites) methods of fetching the data. It is > worse when the data are not as organized as json data, but it is > distributed in unique ways for the specific site. > Once you get a Gopher/Gemini browser, among yt-dlp, the web can go away. Try these under lynx: gopher://magical.fish gopher://gopherddit.com gopher://sdf.org gopher://hngopher.com gemini://gemi.dev (head to news waffle) Magical Fish it's a HUGE portal and even a 386 would be able to use the services. You have a news source, a translator, stock prices, weather, wikipedia over gopher, Gutenberg, torrent search... Have fun.
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| From | D <nospam@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-13 10:46 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <b1184f62-37d0-d731-79a4-bdf91de14663@example.net> |
| In reply to | #26333 |
On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, Bozo User wrote: > On 2024-12-08, root <NoEMail@home.org> wrote: >> Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote: >>> >>> I don't know about Emacs, but for TUI browsers with Javascript >>> support ELinks is one that I'm aware of. However like the >>> experimental JS support in Netsurf it doesn't seem to be advanced >>> enough to be useful (although unlike Netsurf, ELinks uses Mozilla's >>> SpiderMonkey JS engine, so I'm not exactly sure what makes it so >>> difficult to get right). >>> >> >> I regard ELinks as worthless. At best, I hope it is a work in >> progress. I haven't tried Netsurf, but I have tried implementing, >> via jsdom, specific fetch routines for different sites of interest. >> I have found that even sites that contain json data do not provide >> consistent (across sites) methods of fetching the data. It is >> worse when the data are not as organized as json data, but it is >> distributed in unique ways for the specific site. >> > > Once you get a Gopher/Gemini browser, among yt-dlp, the web can go away. > > Try these under lynx: > > gopher://magical.fish > gopher://gopherddit.com > gopher://sdf.org > gopher://hngopher.com > > gemini://gemi.dev (head to news waffle) > > Magical Fish it's a HUGE portal and even a 386 would be > able to use the services. You have a news source, > a translator, stock prices, weather, wikipedia over gopher, > Gutenberg, torrent search... > > Have fun. I imagine it would be very easy to write scripts to pull in what ever regular www site you might like and move it to gopher. I found it sad that gemini came into being and split the energies between gopher and gemini. I will have to remember magical.fish. Gohper works beautifully in links!
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| From | not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-14 06:52 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <67857cf3@news.ausics.net> |
| In reply to | #26340 |
D <nospam@example.net> wrote: > On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, Bozo User wrote: >> Once you get a Gopher/Gemini browser, among yt-dlp, the web can go away. >> >> Try these under lynx: >> >> gopher://magical.fish >> gopher://gopherddit.com >> gopher://sdf.org >> gopher://hngopher.com >> >> gemini://gemi.dev (head to news waffle) >> >> Magical Fish it's a HUGE portal and even a 386 would be >> able to use the services. You have a news source, >> a translator, stock prices, weather, wikipedia over gopher, >> Gutenberg, torrent search... >> >> Have fun. > > I imagine it would be very easy to write scripts to pull in what ever > regular www site you might like and move it to gopher. If it has a friendly API and that doesn't change every month. I notice Gopherddit.com is broken, it just says "Subreddit not found" for everything. Not that I care to read Reddit anyway. > I will have to remember magical.fish. Gohper works beautifully in links! No Gopher support in Links, I guess you mean ELinks or Lynx. -- __ __ #_ < |\| |< _#
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| From | D <nospam@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-14 18:54 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <9d472316-1423-ad87-6c5a-37d5e47c88b1@example.net> |
| In reply to | #26347 |
On Mon, 14 Jan 2025, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: > D <nospam@example.net> wrote: >> On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, Bozo User wrote: >>> Once you get a Gopher/Gemini browser, among yt-dlp, the web can go away. >>> >>> Try these under lynx: >>> >>> gopher://magical.fish >>> gopher://gopherddit.com >>> gopher://sdf.org >>> gopher://hngopher.com >>> >>> gemini://gemi.dev (head to news waffle) >>> >>> Magical Fish it's a HUGE portal and even a 386 would be >>> able to use the services. You have a news source, >>> a translator, stock prices, weather, wikipedia over gopher, >>> Gutenberg, torrent search... >>> >>> Have fun. >> >> I imagine it would be very easy to write scripts to pull in what ever >> regular www site you might like and move it to gopher. > > If it has a friendly API and that doesn't change every month. I > notice Gopherddit.com is broken, it just says "Subreddit not found" > for everything. Not that I care to read Reddit anyway. > >> I will have to remember magical.fish. Gohper works beautifully in links! > > No Gopher support in Links, I guess you mean ELinks or Lynx. This is correct. I meant elinks. Apologies for the confusion.
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| From | Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-16 07:55 +0000 |
| Subject | web |
| Message-ID | <6Qspx-PwipMTzeeG@violet.siamics.net> |
| In reply to | #26333 |
>>>>> On 2025-01-12, Bozo User wrote: [Cross-posting to news:comp.infosystems.www.misc just in case, but setting Followup-To: comp.misc so as to keep the thread there.] > Once you get a Gopher/Gemini browser, among yt-dlp, the web can go away. While I do appreciate the availability of yt-dlp, I feel like a huge part of the reason Chromium is huge is so it can support Youtube. Granted, there doesn't seem to be as many DSAs for video software (codecs and players) [1], but it's still the kind of software I'd rather keep at least in a container. [1] news:linux.debian.announce.security (Not that I see much reason to listen to a video blogger talk for fifteen minutes to convey the same information I can get from five minutes of reading in the first place. A relative of mine watches most of videos at double speed, but I don't have that kind of fast listening skill myself, alas.) Perhaps more important is that the Web can be understood as a bunch of interlinked resources identified by URIs. And even though modern browsers might fail to handle some of them, traditional ones (like Lynx and, reportedly, SeaMonkey) still support things like news:, mailto:, gopher:, and even ftp:. > Try these under lynx: > gopher://magical.fish > gopher://gopherddit.com > gopher://sdf.org > gopher://hngopher.com > gemini://gemi.dev (head to news waffle) By the by, what's the equivalent of wget(1) for gopher:? I understand that a lot of website operators don't care about making their sites easy to download (and some, like the aforementioned Youtube, try their best to make downloading hard, for reasons), but I still care about downloading them regardless. Of course, I try to make my own webpages compatible with "wget -p"; e. g.: http://am-1.org/~ivan/qinp-2021/096.sys.en.xhtml http://am-1.org/~ivan/qinp-2024/112.l-system.en.xhtml (I intend to implement Rsync access at some point as well, though no concrete plan ATM.) > Magical Fish it's a HUGE portal and even a 386 would be able to use > the services. I do, in fact, have a Am386 box on my LAN with Lynx on it, but it won't work as I don't do NAT, preferring an application level gateway, Polipo, instead. (Reasoning vaguely along the lines that I'd rather have a proxy crash, than kernel.) Polipo, though, only supports HTTP; as well as CONNECT, but Lynx can't use that for accessing gopher:. (Squid provides HTTP access to ftp: and, IIRC, gopher:, but it's been a decade since I've last ran it.) > You have a news source, a translator, stock prices, weather, > wikipedia over gopher, Gutenberg, torrent search... Is Wikipedia over gopher any better in Lynx than Wikipedia over HTTP? Same for Gutenberg.
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| From | not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-17 07:10 +1000 |
| Subject | Re: web |
| Message-ID | <678975ab@news.ausics.net> |
| In reply to | #26361 |
In comp.misc Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netremove.invalid> wrote: >>>>>> On 2025-01-12, Bozo User wrote: > > Once you get a Gopher/Gemini browser, among yt-dlp, the web can go away. > > While I do appreciate the availability of yt-dlp, I feel like > a huge part of the reason Chromium is huge is so it can support > Youtube. Granted, there doesn't seem to be as many DSAs for > video software (codecs and players) [1], but it's still the > kind of software I'd rather keep at least in a container. You fear that a hacker can upload a YouTube video containing an exploit and manage to pass that exploit through YouTube's transcoding in order to attack Linux video player programs? Seems like a big stretch to me. > By the by, what's the equivalent of wget(1) for gopher:? Curl supports Gopher. Not Gemini though. -- __ __ #_ < |\| |< _#
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| From | yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-17 04:58 +0042 |
| Subject | Re: web |
| Message-ID | <874j1yyt0s.fsf@tilde.institute> |
| In reply to | #26363 |
not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) wrote: > Curl supports Gopher. Not Gemini though. Ncat and Netcat (check the existence of '-c' and '-T') can fetch stuff from Gemini servers: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ $ printf 'gemini://geminiprotocol.net/\r\n' \ | ncat --ssl geminiprotocol.net 1965 | less ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ $ printf 'gemini://geminiprotocol.net/\r\n' \ | nc -c -T noverify geminiprotocol.net 1965 | less ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Wrapping that in some hands full of AWK to find links and iterate over them should not require deep magic. Some browsers capable of accessing gemini: can save the fetched files' and gemini pages' source, maybe they would even be easier to integrate in own scripts? TL;DR: There is no showstopper. -- Trust me, I know what I'm doing...
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| From | anthk <anthk@openbsd.home> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-22 21:52 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: web |
| Message-ID | <slrnvttq6m.2us4.anthk@openbsd.home> |
| In reply to | #26365 |
On 2025-01-17, yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote: > not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) wrote: > >> Curl supports Gopher. Not Gemini though. > > Ncat and Netcat (check the existence of '-c' and '-T') can fetch stuff > from Gemini servers: > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > $ printf 'gemini://geminiprotocol.net/\r\n' \ >| ncat --ssl geminiprotocol.net 1965 | less > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > $ printf 'gemini://geminiprotocol.net/\r\n' \ >| nc -c -T noverify geminiprotocol.net 1965 | less > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Wrapping that in some hands full of AWK to find links and iterate over > them should not require deep magic. > > Some browsers capable of accessing gemini: can save the fetched files' > and gemini pages' source, maybe they would even be easier to integrate > in own scripts? > > TL;DR: There is no showstopper. > gem.awk (a gemini client written with gawk+openssl) works like that I expanded it with some nice features another one I'd like it's one to batch-dl a full phlog, easy to do with basename, mkdir -p and a for loop iterating the array of links.
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| From | Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-18 14:05 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: web |
| Message-ID | <jWv0GNpJelv3n7gK@violet.siamics.net> |
| In reply to | #26363 |
>>>>> On 2025-01-16, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>>> In comp.misc Ivan Shmakov wrote:
>>>>> On 2025-01-12, Bozo User wrote:
>>> Once you get a Gopher/Gemini browser, among yt-dlp, the web can go away.
I. e., my point being: you can't escape web by switching to
Gopher, because Gopher /is/ web. (Even if 'darker' part of it.)
>> While I do appreciate the availability of yt-dlp, I feel like a
>> huge part of the reason Chromium is huge is so it can support
>> Youtube. Granted, there doesn't seem to be as many DSAs for video
>> software (codecs and players), but it's still the kind of software
>> I'd rather keep at least in a container.
> You fear that a hacker can upload a YouTube video containing
> an exploit and manage to pass that exploit through YouTube's
> transcoding in order to attack Linux video player programs?
> Seems like a big stretch to me.
I'm not familiar with how Youtube processes its videos; I've
never even uploaded anything there myself, much less looked at
their sources for security issues that might or might not be
there.
(I do have experience with Wikimedia Commons, and I'm reasonably
certain that while they offer processed versions of the user
uploads, they still keep the originals in publicly accessible
locations on their servers. Why, I distinctly recall uploading
a fixed version of someone else's malformed SVG file there.)
Neither do I have any idea how opposed they would be to requests
from companies to introduce such security issues deliberately.
(I believe such hypothetical business entities are usually
referred to as "MAFIAA" in colloquial speech, but I can't help
but note that the company that pioneered the approach was in
fact Sony [1].)
[1] http://duckduckgo.com/html/?kd=-1&q="sony"+rootkit+controversy
And even were I to believe for videos downloaded from Youtube
to never ever have any potential security flaw whatsoever,
having two copies of video player software installed, one
within and one without container, would still be ill-advised,
if only for the reason that I might use an out-of-container
install for a potentially unsafe, non-Youtube video by accident.
>> By the by, what's the equivalent of wget(1) for gopher:?
> Curl supports Gopher. Not Gemini though.
Curl is my tool of choice for doing API calls; say (JFTR, [2]
has a couple of complete examples):
$ curl -iv --form-string comment="New file." \
-F file=@my.jpeg -F text=\</dev/fd/5 5< my.jpeg.mw \
--form-string filesize="$(wc -c < my.jpeg)" \
--form-string token="1337cafe+\\" \
... -- https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php\
"?action=upload&format=xml&assert=user"
[2] http://am-1.org/~ivan/src/examples-2024/webwatch.mk
However, I distinctly recall finding it inadequate as a mirroring
tool back in the day. (Though that might've changed meanwhile.)
And similarly for yeti's comment in [3]: I try to share what I know
with others. Such as on IRC. So, suppose someone asks on IRC,
"how do I get an offline copy of gopher://example.com/?"
"You can easily write your own Gopher / Gemini recursive
downloader yourself" is not something I'd be comfortable giving
as an answer, TBH. (Though I /would/ be comfortable with
providing assistance if someone explicitly asks for help with
writing one in the first place.)
[3] news:874j1yyt0s.fsf@tilde.institute
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| From | not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-19 09:09 +1000 |
| Subject | Re: web |
| Message-ID | <678c349b@news.ausics.net> |
| In reply to | #26367 |
Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netremove.invalid> wrote: >>>>>> On 2025-01-16, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: >>>>>> In comp.misc Ivan Shmakov wrote: >>>>>> On 2025-01-12, Bozo User wrote: > > >>> Once you get a Gopher/Gemini browser, among yt-dlp, the web can go away. > > I. e., my point being: you can't escape web by switching to > Gopher, because Gopher /is/ web. (Even if 'darker' part of it.) > > >> While I do appreciate the availability of yt-dlp, I feel like a > >> huge part of the reason Chromium is huge is so it can support > >> Youtube. Granted, there doesn't seem to be as many DSAs for video > >> software (codecs and players), but it's still the kind of software > >> I'd rather keep at least in a container. > > > You fear that a hacker can upload a YouTube video containing > > an exploit and manage to pass that exploit through YouTube's > > transcoding in order to attack Linux video player programs? > > Seems like a big stretch to me. > > I'm not familiar with how Youtube processes its videos; I've > never even uploaded anything there myself, much less looked at > their sources for security issues that might or might not be > there. The files I download from YouTube always contain the metadata string (in both audio and video streams): "ISO Media file produced by Google Inc." But I always use the lowest quality option. > >> By the by, what's the equivalent of wget(1) for gopher:? > > > Curl supports Gopher. Not Gemini though. > > Curl is my tool of choice for doing API calls; say (JFTR, [2] > has a couple of complete examples): > > $ curl -iv --form-string comment="New file." \ > -F file=@my.jpeg -F text=\</dev/fd/5 5< my.jpeg.mw \ > --form-string filesize="$(wc -c < my.jpeg)" \ > --form-string token="1337cafe+\\" \ > ... -- https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php\ > "?action=upload&format=xml&assert=user" > > [2] http://am-1.org/~ivan/src/examples-2024/webwatch.mk > > However, I distinctly recall finding it inadequate as a mirroring > tool back in the day. (Though that might've changed meanwhile.) That's true, Curl doesn't do mirroring. Command-line options may exist, but one I'm aware of is that the Gopherus Gopher client since version 1.2 has the feature "all files from current folder can be downloaded by pressing F10". Not comparable to Wget's recursive mode, but enough for some tasks. -- __ __ #_ < |\| |< _#
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| From | candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-29 20:10 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: web |
| Message-ID | <slrnvpl275.1pvor.candycanearter07@candydeb.host.invalid> |
| In reply to | #26368 |
Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote at 23:09 this Saturday (GMT): > Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netremove.invalid> wrote: [snip] > The files I download from YouTube always contain the metadata > string (in both audio and video streams): > "ISO Media file produced by Google Inc." Weird. I think yt-dlp has an option to overwrite the metadata with info about the video itself? -- user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-04 21:42 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: web |
| Message-ID | <vnu1jf$219s9$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #26416 |
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 20:10:03 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote: > Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote at 23:09 this Saturday > (GMT): >> >> The files I download from YouTube always contain the metadata string >> (in both audio and video streams): >> "ISO Media file produced by Google Inc." > > Weird. I think yt-dlp has an option to overwrite the metadata with info > about the video itself? This *is* info about the video itself.
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| From | Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-19 14:47 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: web |
| Message-ID | <vmj39r$29je9$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #26367 |
On 2025-01-18, Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> wrote: > > I. e., my point being: you can't escape web by switching to > Gopher, because Gopher /is/ web. (Even if 'darker' part of it.) I realize that the distinction between the web and the Internet can be confusing. At one point Microsoft labeled the web browser desktop icon "The Internet". At another point Gmail made it mainstream to do email in a web browser. <https://www.getmyos.com/upload/files/2018/10/05/ windows_95_screenshot_1_1_bedc52f3b61686c533b5b318405508a6.png> Below is a link explaining the difference between the web and the Internet. <https://askleo.com/whats-the-difference-between-the-web-and- the-internet/> In short, gopher is not the web. It does not use the HTTP protocol, the HTML format, nor other web standards such as Javascript. Gopher is a separate protocol that is not directly viewable in mainstream browsers such as Chrome and Mozilla.
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| From | yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-19 16:14 +0042 |
| Subject | Re: web |
| Message-ID | <87cygivmy3.fsf@tilde.institute> |
| In reply to | #26369 |
Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> wrote: > In short, gopher is not the web. It does not use the HTTP protocol, > the HTML format, nor other web standards such as Javascript. Gopher > is a separate protocol that is not directly viewable in mainstream > browsers such as Chrome and Mozilla. I contradict. When browsers appeared, we thought of the web as what was accessible by them. FTP, HTTP and Gopher were among this in the early days. Gopher is not the web. Yes. HTTP is not the web! They just are part of the web. Today's big$$$-browsers converge to single protocol network file viewers and unluckily the smallweb browsers do too. Let's prefer multi protocol browsers and return to all goof stuff being just a click away from each. That was what the web was meant to be and we should make it exactly that again. First step: Prefer writing plugins for existing browsers over creating more single protocol file viewers. Writing plugins for Chawan (TUI) and Dillo (GUI) is easy. If you can say that about other browsers too, let's start a list/FAQ in comp.infosystems (the protocol independent group please) about it. -- I do not bite, I just want to play.
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| From | snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-19 16:05 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: web |
| Message-ID | <1r6f03p.1c23s5qqo38efN%snipeco.2@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #26370 |
yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote: > Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> wrote: > > > In short, gopher is not the web. It does not use the HTTP protocol, > > the HTML format, nor other web standards such as Javascript. Gopher > > is a separate protocol that is not directly viewable in mainstream > > browsers such as Chrome and Mozilla. > > I contradict. > > When browsers appeared, we thought of the web as what was accessible > by them. FTP, HTTP and Gopher were among this in the early days. > > Gopher is not the web. Yes. > > HTTP is not the web! > > They just are part of the web. > If by "the web" you mean *The Internet*, I would agree. However, to me "the web" means HTML browsers running HTTP. Call me old fashioned if you like but IMO what you call "the web" is only *part* of The Internet. Yes, HTML browsers have supplanted many earlier protocols, embraced them and made them its own, but still it is only the web, just a part of The Internet, not its entirety. [what follows is left for context] > Today's big$$$-browsers converge to single protocol network file viewers > and unluckily the smallweb browsers do too. > > Let's prefer multi protocol browsers and return to all goof stuff being > just a click away from each. > > That was what the web was meant to be and we should make it exactly that > again. > > First step: Prefer writing plugins for existing browsers over creating > more single protocol file viewers. > > Writing plugins for Chawan (TUI) and Dillo (GUI) is easy. If you can > say that about other browsers too, let's start a list/FAQ in > comp.infosystems (the protocol independent group please) about it. -- ^Ï^. Sn!pe, PTB, FIBS My pet rock Gordon just is.
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| From | Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-19 19:15 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: web |
| Message-ID | <MQmPg1-t1p-Mby03@violet.siamics.net> |
| In reply to | #26370 |
>>>>> On 2025-01-19, yeti wrote: >>>>> Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> wrote: > Newsgroups: comp.infosystems,comp.misc I took the liberty to disregard the crosspost. >> In short, gopher is not the web. It does not use the HTTP protocol, >> the HTML format, nor other web standards such as Javascript. Gopher >> is a separate protocol that is not directly viewable in mainstream >> browsers such as Chrome and Mozilla. Gopher resources are indeed not directly viewable in /modern/ browsers, so I can agree they're not part of /modern/ web. From where I stand, they're still part of the web at large. As an aside, who decides what is or is not a /web/ standard? If the suggestion is to only consider official W3C TRs as "web standards proper" then, well, HTML is currently maintained by WHATWG, not W3C; and HTTP/1.1 is IETF RFC 9112 / IETF STD 99. > I contradict. > When browsers appeared, we thought of the web as what was accessible > by them. FTP, HTTP and Gopher were among this in the early days. > Gopher is not the web. Yes. > HTTP is not the web! > They just are part of the web. > Today's big$$$-browsers converge to single protocol network file > viewers and unluckily the smallweb browsers do too. That's how I see it as well. I've been using Lynx for over two decades now, and I have no trouble using it to read HTML documents (local or delivered over HTTP/1; provided, of course, they are documents, rather than Javascript programs wrapped in HTML, as is not uncommon today), gopherholes, or Usenet articles (such as news:87cygivmy3.fsf@tilde.institute I'm responding to.) It "just works." I have no trouble understanding the difference between the web proper and Internet as the technology it relies upon, either. DNS is not web because even though it's essential for the web as it is today to work, you can't point your browser, modern or otherwise, to a DNS server, a DNS zone, or even an individual DNS resource record (even though your browser /will/ request one from your local recursive resolver, or its DNS-over-HTTP equivalent, when you point it to a URL with a DNS name in that, be that http://example.net/ or nntp://news.example.com/comp.misc .) NTP is not web for much the same reason: there're no URIs for NTP servers or individual NTP packets. Neither are there URIs for currently active TCP connections or UDP datagrams or IP hosts. There /are/ URIs for email mailboxes (mailto:jsmith@example.net) to send mail to, and phone numbers (tel:) to call, though. To summarize, from a purely practical PoV, if you can access it from /your/ browser, it is part of /your/ web. From a conceptual PoV, I'd define "web" as a collection of interlinked resources identified by their URIs. So, if it has an URI and that URI is mentioned somewhere on the web, it's part of the web too. Modern web is important because that's often where the people you can talk to are. But non-modern portions of the web could be just as important, especially if it's where most of the people you /actually/ talk to are. Such as news:comp.misc .
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| From | Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-20 15:37 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: web |
| Message-ID | <vmlqj3$37og2$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #26370 |
On 2025-01-19, yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote: > Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> wrote: > >> In short, gopher is not the web. It does not use the HTTP protocol, >> the HTML format, nor other web standards such as Javascript. Gopher >> is a separate protocol that is not directly viewable in mainstream >> browsers such as Chrome and Mozilla. > > I contradict. > > When browsers appeared, we thought of the web as what was accessible > by them. FTP, HTTP and Gopher were among this in the early days. In the dawn of the Internet some people used a service called FTPmail because it could be faster and cheaper to transfer data over email than over direct Internet connections. By your logic, one could argue that FTP is email because it was historically used in email clients. One could also argue that because when browsers appeared, they could view HTML content over the Server Message Block protocol, that CIFS is also the web. Such arguments strike me as disingenuous.
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