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Re: web

From Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.misc
Subject Re: web
Date 2025-01-19 19:15 +0000
Organization Dbus-free station.
Message-ID <MQmPg1-t1p-Mby03@violet.siamics.net> (permalink)
References (13 earlier) <6Qspx-PwipMTzeeG@violet.siamics.net> <678975ab@news.ausics.net> <jWv0GNpJelv3n7gK@violet.siamics.net> <vmj39r$29je9$1@dont-email.me> <87cygivmy3.fsf@tilde.institute>

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>>>>> On 2025-01-19, yeti wrote:
>>>>> Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> wrote:

 > Newsgroups: comp.infosystems,comp.misc

	I took the liberty to disregard the crosspost.

 >> In short, gopher is not the web.  It does not use the HTTP protocol,
 >> the HTML format, nor other web standards such as Javascript.  Gopher
 >> is a separate protocol that is not directly viewable in mainstream
 >> browsers such as Chrome and Mozilla.

	Gopher resources are indeed not directly viewable in /modern/
	browsers, so I can agree they're not part of /modern/ web.

	From where I stand, they're still part of the web at large.

	As an aside, who decides what is or is not a /web/ standard?
	If the suggestion is to only consider official W3C TRs as
	"web standards proper" then, well, HTML is currently maintained
	by WHATWG, not W3C; and HTTP/1.1 is IETF RFC 9112 / IETF STD 99.

 > I contradict.

 > When browsers appeared, we thought of the web as what was accessible
 > by them.  FTP, HTTP and Gopher were among this in the early days.

 > Gopher is not the web.  Yes.

 > HTTP is not the web!

 > They just are part of the web.

 > Today's big$$$-browsers converge to single protocol network file
 > viewers and unluckily the smallweb browsers do too.

	That's how I see it as well.  I've been using Lynx for over
	two decades now, and I have no trouble using it to read HTML
	documents (local or delivered over HTTP/1; provided, of course,
	they are documents, rather than Javascript programs wrapped
	in HTML, as is not uncommon today), gopherholes, or Usenet
	articles (such as news:87cygivmy3.fsf@tilde.institute I'm
	responding to.)  It "just works."

	I have no trouble understanding the difference between the web
	proper and Internet as the technology it relies upon, either.

	DNS is not web because even though it's essential for the web
	as it is today to work, you can't point your browser, modern or
	otherwise, to a DNS server, a DNS zone, or even an individual DNS
	resource record (even though your browser /will/ request one from
	your local recursive resolver, or its DNS-over-HTTP equivalent,
	when you point it to a URL with a DNS name in that, be that
	http://example.net/ or nntp://news.example.com/comp.misc .)

	NTP is not web for much the same reason: there're no URIs for NTP
	servers or individual NTP packets.  Neither are there URIs for
	currently active TCP connections or UDP datagrams or IP hosts.

	There /are/ URIs for email mailboxes (mailto:jsmith@example.net)
	to send mail to, and phone numbers (tel:) to call, though.

	To summarize, from a purely practical PoV, if you can access it
	from /your/ browser, it is part of /your/ web.  From a conceptual
	PoV, I'd define "web" as a collection of interlinked resources
	identified by their URIs.  So, if it has an URI and that URI is
	mentioned somewhere on the web, it's part of the web too.

	Modern web is important because that's often where the people
	you can talk to are.  But non-modern portions of the web could
	be just as important, especially if it's where most of the
	people you /actually/ talk to are.  Such as news:comp.misc .

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terminal only for two weeks Retrograde <fungus@amongus.com.invalid> - 2024-11-25 13:34 +0000
  Re: terminal only for two weeks D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-25 22:18 +0100
  Re: terminal only for two weeks Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-25 21:52 +0000
    Re: terminal only for two weeks Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2024-11-26 03:18 -0400
      Re: terminal only for two weeks Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-26 21:28 +0000
    Re: terminal only for two weeks yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-11-26 09:22 +0042
      Re: terminal only for two weeks Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-26 21:24 +0000
    Re: terminal only for two weeks candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-11-30 01:20 +0000
      Re: terminal only for two weeks yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-11-30 04:22 +0042
        Re: terminal only for two weeks candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-12-01 20:40 +0000
      Re: terminal only for two weeks Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-30 03:52 +0000
        Re: terminal only for two weeks candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-12-01 20:40 +0000
          Re: terminal only for two weeks Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-01 23:24 +0000
            Re: terminal only for two weeks candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-12-02 02:00 +0000
              Re: terminal only for two weeks Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-02 05:41 +0000
  Re: terminal only for two weeks John McCue <jmccue@qball.jmcunx.com> - 2024-11-26 03:13 +0000
    Re: terminal only for two weeks D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-26 10:22 +0100
      Re: terminal only for two weeks yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-11-26 12:15 +0042
        Re: terminal only for two weeks D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-26 16:36 +0100
          Re: terminal only for two weeks not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-11-27 07:52 +1000
            Re: terminal only for two weeks D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-27 10:51 +0100
              Re: terminal only for two weeks not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-11-28 06:44 +1000
                Re: terminal only for two weeks yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-11-28 05:54 +0042
                Re: terminal only for two weeks D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-28 10:52 +0100
                Re: terminal only for two weeks not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-11-29 06:17 +1000
                Re: terminal only for two weeks D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-28 22:05 +0100
                Re: terminal only for two weeks yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-11-29 02:19 +0042
                Re: terminal only for two weeks D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-29 10:38 +0100
                Re: terminal only for two weeks D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-29 22:39 +0100
          Re: terminal only for two weeks Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2024-11-26 17:57 -0400
            Re: terminal only for two weeks D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-27 10:54 +0100
              Re: terminal only for two weeks Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2024-11-28 01:41 -0400
                Re: terminal only for two weeks Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-28 06:42 +0000
                Re: terminal only for two weeks D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-28 10:56 +0100
                URIs within URIs: google.com/url?q= et al. Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2024-12-20 18:42 +0000
                Re: URIs within URIs: google.com/url?q= et al. Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-12-20 19:03 +0000
                Re: URIs within URIs: google.com/url?q= et al. Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2024-12-22 01:39 -0400
            Re: terminal only for two weeks Oregonian Haruspex <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 06:11 +0000
              Re: terminal only for two weeks Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-04 06:42 +0000
                Re: terminal only for two weeks candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-12-04 14:30 +0000
                Re: terminal only for two weeks Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-05 01:46 +0000
                Re: terminal only for two weeks not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-12-08 07:52 +1000
                Re: terminal only for two weeks root <NoEMail@home.org> - 2024-12-08 14:11 +0000
                Re: terminal only for two weeks Bozo User <anthk@disroot.org> - 2025-01-12 23:01 +0000
                Re: terminal only for two weeks D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-13 10:46 +0100
                Re: terminal only for two weeks not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-01-14 06:52 +1000
                Re: terminal only for two weeks D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-14 18:54 +0100
                web Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-01-16 07:55 +0000
                Re: web not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-01-17 07:10 +1000
                Re: web yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-01-17 04:58 +0042
                Re: web Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-01-18 14:05 +0000
                Re: web not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-01-19 09:09 +1000
                Re: web candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-01-29 20:10 +0000
                Re: web Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-04 21:42 +0000
                Re: web Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> - 2025-01-19 14:47 +0000
                Re: web yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-01-19 16:14 +0042
                Re: web snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-19 16:05 +0000
                Re: web Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-01-19 19:15 +0000
                Re: web Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> - 2025-01-20 15:37 +0000
                Re: web Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-01-24 18:45 +0000
                Re: web news@zzo38computer.org.invalid - 2025-01-20 11:23 -0800
                Re: web Dave Yeo <dave.r.yeo@gmail.com> - 2025-01-16 18:04 -0800
                Re: terminal only for two weeks Bozo User <anthk@disroot.org> - 2025-01-12 23:01 +0000
                Re: terminal only for two weeks yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-12-05 06:34 +0042
                Re: terminal only for two weeks yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-01-16 11:42 +0042
  Re: terminal only for two weeks Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2024-11-28 12:45 +0200
  Re: terminal only for two weeks Bozo User <anthk@disroot.org> - 2025-01-12 23:01 +0000
    Re: terminal only for two weeks Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-01-12 22:03 -0300
      Re: terminal only for two weeks D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-13 10:48 +0100
        Re: terminal only for two weeks Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-01-13 16:24 -0300
          Re: terminal only for two weeks D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-14 18:50 +0100
          Re: terminal only for two weeks Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-01-15 22:10 -0300
            Re: terminal only for two weeks Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-01-16 04:15 +0000
            Re: terminal only for two weeks Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2025-01-16 15:58 +1000
            Re: terminal only for two weeks Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-21 05:31 +0000
            Re: terminal only for two weeks Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-01-23 19:33 +0000
              Re: terminal only for two weeks Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-12 13:12 -0300
                Re: terminal only for two weeks Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> - 2025-02-16 20:55 +0000
                Re: terminal only for two weeks Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-16 22:54 -0300
                Re: terminal only for two weeks Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-16 22:56 -0300
                Re: terminal only for two weeks Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-17 03:41 +0000
                Re: terminal only for two weeks Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 13:02 -0300
                Re: terminal only for two weeks kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-17 22:18 +0000
                Re: terminal only for two weeks Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 13:03 -0300

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