Re: Mozilla's new vision

Message-ID	<65908dcc@news.ausics.net> (permalink)
From	not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Subject	Re: Mozilla's new vision
Newsgroups	comp.misc
References	<slrnup0kti.2vv.bencollver@svadhyaya.localdomain> <87le9bto0k.fsf@yaxenu.org>
Date	2023-12-31 07:38 +1000
Organization	Ausics - https://ausics.net

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Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> wrote:
> Without a Free Software browser, the web will be completely dominated by
> corporate actors.  Intelligent people will leave and look for
> alternatives.  We could go back to gopher-like services.  In fact, see
> the gemini protocol.

I read the blog post in Dillo, and although the developer of that
browser has disappeared, there are forks, and similar projects like
Links and (less active) Netsurf.

Gopher and Gemini don't need to replace the web so that people can
keep using "free software", websites just need to use the features
of HTML that allow them to be compatible with that software. For
the web pages that aren't usable in those alternative browsers,
it's a more reasonable proposition for those website developers to
implement Javascript-free fall-back solutions than have them switch
to Gopher or Gemini. In fact many used to do that once, only they
stopped.

> The web is not control-resistant because it's difficult to build a
> browser.  So difficult that you can only compete if you're a big group.
> So there is no diversity in the offer.  Without diversity, its survival
> is greatly threatened.

As standard go, the Web still fully supports building websites
compatible with all browsers. There's a ton of extremely
complicated stuff that's been added over the years, but it's
optional. The trouble is that it's not treated as optional from
the client-side by website developers, only as options to pick
from on their side, with the assumption that if an option is
supported in Chrome then it's supported by the one client that
everyone actually uses and therefore alternative methods don't
matter.

Gopher and Gemini could go exactly the same way if people with the
same attitude did adopt them to build a complete Web alternative.
It's not a standards problem, it's a culture problem.

-- 
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Mozilla's new vision Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> - 2023-12-30 17:34 +0000
  Re: Mozilla's new vision Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> - 2023-12-30 21:16 +0300
    Re: Mozilla's new vision Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2023-12-30 19:24 +0000
      Re: Mozilla's new vision not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2023-12-31 07:05 +1000
        Re: Mozilla's new vision Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2023-12-31 09:40 +0000
    Re: Mozilla's new vision Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> - 2023-12-30 22:12 +0000
      Re: Mozilla's new vision kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2023-12-31 00:50 +0000
  Re: Mozilla's new vision Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> - 2023-12-30 17:48 -0300
    Re: Mozilla's new vision not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2023-12-31 07:38 +1000
      Re: Mozilla's new vision Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2023-12-31 09:34 +0000
        Re: Mozilla's new vision not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-01-01 07:01 +1000
    Re: Mozilla's new vision yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2023-12-31 03:12 +0042
    Re: Mozilla's new vision yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2023-12-31 03:13 +0042
      Re: Mozilla's new vision Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> - 2023-12-31 00:37 -0300
        Re: Mozilla's new vision immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-01-02 00:56 +0100
          Re: Mozilla's new vision Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> - 2024-01-02 01:07 -0300
            Re: Mozilla's new vision immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-01-02 18:30 +0100
              Re: Mozilla's new vision Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> - 2024-01-03 03:05 -0300
                Re: Mozilla's new vision yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-01-03 09:10 +0042
                Re: Mozilla's new vision Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> - 2024-01-03 16:22 -0300
                Re: Mozilla's new vision yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-01-03 21:56 +0042
                Re: Mozilla's new vision immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-01-06 04:17 +0100
                Re: Mozilla's new vision Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> - 2024-01-06 01:32 -0300
            Re: Mozilla's new vision Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2024-01-03 01:56 -0400
              Re: Mozilla's new vision Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> - 2024-01-03 16:15 -0300
    Re: Mozilla's new vision Marco Moock <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> - 2023-12-31 10:43 +0100
      Re: Mozilla's new vision Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2023-12-31 10:55 +0000
        Re: Mozilla's new vision Marco Moock <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> - 2024-01-01 10:13 +0100
          Re: Mozilla's new vision Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2024-01-01 17:11 -0400
            Re: Mozilla's new vision Marco Moock <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> - 2024-01-02 08:34 +0100
          Re: Mozilla's new vision Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2024-01-03 12:00 +0000
            Re: Mozilla's new vision Marco Moock <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> - 2024-01-03 14:43 +0100
              Re: Mozilla's new vision Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2024-01-03 17:48 +0000
                Re: Mozilla's new vision Marco Moock <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> - 2024-01-03 20:45 +0100
    Re: Mozilla's new vision Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2023-12-31 12:10 +0000
      Re: Mozilla's new vision Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2023-12-31 13:36 +0000
        Re: Mozilla's new vision Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2023-12-31 19:28 +0000
      Re: Mozilla's new vision kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2023-12-31 15:10 +0000
    Re: Mozilla's new vision cr0c0d1le <cr0c0d1le.ewlkg@8shield.net> - 2024-01-01 13:41 -0500
      Re: Mozilla's new vision Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> - 2024-01-02 01:07 -0300
      Re: Mozilla's new vision Marco Moock <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> - 2024-01-02 08:36 +0100
        Re: Mozilla's new vision candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> - 2024-01-02 17:35 -0600
          Re: Mozilla's new vision immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-01-06 03:47 +0100
    Re: Mozilla's new vision immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-01-02 00:48 +0100
      Re: Mozilla's new vision Marco Moock <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> - 2024-01-02 08:37 +0100
        Re: Mozilla's new vision Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-01-02 09:01 +0000
          Re: Mozilla's new vision immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-01-02 18:28 +0100
          Re: Mozilla's new vision not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-01-03 06:48 +1000
          Re: Mozilla's new vision Andreas Kempe <kempe@lysator.liu.se> - 2024-01-03 01:19 +0000
            Re: Mozilla's new vision Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> - 2024-01-03 03:25 -0300
            Re: Mozilla's new vision immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-01-06 04:33 +0100
              Re: Mozilla's new vision Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> - 2024-01-06 01:34 -0300

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