RE: allow line break at operators

From	"Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com>
Date	2011-08-16 15:26 -0400
Subject	RE: allow line break at operators
References	(8 earlier) <1312982377.95657.YahooMailNeo@web121508.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <mailman.2119.1312991808.1164.python-list@python.org> <slrnj45e7s.14vk.usenet-nospam@guild.seebs.net> <87fwl9hr4r.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <slrnj46o4a.1rv9.usenet-nospam@guild.seebs.net>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Message-ID	<mailman.98.1313523921.27778.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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>1.  Indentation as flow control was a bad idea.
>2.  People are subconsciously aware of this.
>3.  There is a HUGE degree of emotional investment in defending it.
>
>The responses I have seen on this issue are highly emotional, full of insults,
>full of blame-throwing, and utterly contrary to the basic engineering spirit
>I usually see in programming communities.  In other languages, and even in
>Python on any issue but this one, I regularly see people acknowledge
>shortcomings and explain either why they think the tradeoffs are good, or why
>they are willing to put up with it anyway.
>
>The characteristic vehemence and hostility this issue produces are the surest
>sign of people who have a desperate need not to acknowledge the elephant in
>the room.

What exactly is the downside to indentation as flow control? I am a fairly new programmer to Python, but the more I use it, the more I think it has the Right idea (for me at least). I find braces in Java/c[#,++] to be less than helpful in comparison to how people rave over. It allows for free form code sure, but half the time I was using indentation to figure out where conditional branching/loops started and stopped anyway! I will admit it was super useful in helping Eclipse to reformat with a more "readable" indentation. The only difference is that now it forces me to make more readable code instead of allowing me the freedom to make hard to read code. I suppose as an American I should be insulted at the lack of freedom. Hell, I own Apple products; I must be getting indoctrinated into a lack of freedom. :-P

I am not being vehement or hostile. At least I am attempting to be neither. I do not really feel emotionally invested in either because honestly, I will do whatever I have to for what I am trying to get done. If that requires me coding while only wearing hot pink or using braces I will do it. I am far more concerned with ease of coding, ability to do what I want, and occasionally (fairly rarely) if the running code will be "fast enough".

I am not sure why people are so stuck on braces. I figured other people would be like me and tired of having to do things like figuring out where I missed an end brace. 


Ramit


Ramit Prasad | JPMorgan Chase Investment Bank | Currencies Technology
712 Main Street | Houston, TX 77002
work phone: 713 - 216 - 5423




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Thread

Re: allow line break at operators Yingjie Lan <lanyjie@yahoo.com> - 2011-08-09 23:05 -0700
  Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-10 18:32 +1000
    Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-10 09:39 +0100
    Re: allow line break at operators Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2011-08-10 09:56 +0000
      Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-11 00:44 +1000
    Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-10 11:26 +0100
      Re: allow line break at operators Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2011-08-10 12:25 +0000
        Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-10 13:42 +0100
        Re: allow line break at operators Yingjie Lan <lanyjie@yahoo.com> - 2011-08-10 05:58 -0700
        Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-10 15:45 +0100
        Re: allow line break at operators Yingjie Lan <lanyjie@yahoo.com> - 2011-08-10 06:19 -0700
        Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-10 16:56 +0100
          Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-10 17:55 +0000
            Re: allow line break at operators Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-08-11 07:51 +1000
              Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-10 23:42 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2011-08-11 14:40 +0000
              Re: Python & Sullivan Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2011-08-10 18:26 -0500
                Re: Python & Sullivan Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-08-11 10:57 +1000
              Re: Python & Sullivan Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-11 00:54 +0100
              Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-11 04:59 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-08-11 15:56 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-11 21:19 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 00:58 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-12 11:40 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 08:09 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2011-08-12 12:57 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Thomas Rachel <nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915@spamschutz.glglgl.de> - 2011-08-12 14:54 +0200
                Re: allow line break at operators Tim Roberts <timr@probo.com> - 2011-08-14 22:22 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-08-12 18:59 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-12 20:40 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-08-12 21:16 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-12 16:33 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-11 22:29 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-11 22:40 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-11 21:19 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-11 21:19 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2011-08-11 15:43 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-12 06:34 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 08:20 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 08:33 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 20:52 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-12 16:33 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-08-12 20:39 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Rebert <clp2@rebertia.com> - 2011-08-12 10:03 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-12 18:37 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-12 16:33 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 21:01 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-12 21:06 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 08:26 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-12 16:33 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 10:57 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 21:09 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-12 21:06 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-13 08:39 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 23:50 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-08-13 09:19 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2011-08-12 18:53 -0500
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-13 00:39 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-08-13 10:57 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-13 02:34 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-08-13 18:50 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-08-13 19:07 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-08-13 18:59 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-14 17:10 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-14 08:07 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-08-14 19:25 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-15 00:26 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-08-14 11:35 -0400
                Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-15 03:24 +1000
                Re: Re: allow line break at operators Dave Angel <davea@ieee.org> - 2011-08-14 17:46 -0400
                Re: allow line break at operators Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-08-14 18:46 -0400
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-15 00:02 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-14 16:39 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-15 03:26 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-14 19:01 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-15 11:54 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Rebert <clp2@rebertia.com> - 2011-08-14 19:10 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-15 04:28 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2011-08-15 06:40 -0500
                Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-15 23:30 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-15 16:32 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-08-15 21:13 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-08-15 21:37 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-08-15 23:49 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-08-16 11:56 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-15 04:28 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-08-15 03:31 -0400
                Re: allow line break at operators rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-08-15 14:21 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-15 09:27 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-14 09:34 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-08-14 19:27 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2011-08-14 03:51 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-14 12:59 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2011-08-14 12:46 +0300
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-14 19:01 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-14 19:01 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Rebert <clp2@rebertia.com> - 2011-08-14 01:44 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2011-08-16 07:04 +0300
                Re: allow line break at operators rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-08-13 19:18 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-08-13 13:19 +1200
                Re: allow line break at operators Johann Hibschman <jhibschman+usenet@gmail.com> - 2011-08-15 08:27 -0500
                Re: allow line break at operators Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-08-15 09:41 -0400
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-15 15:16 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-08-15 20:34 -0400
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-16 01:37 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-16 00:28 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-15 15:42 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-08-15 20:30 -0400
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-16 00:39 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-08-16 12:43 +1200
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-15 16:32 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2011-08-12 13:35 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-12 21:06 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-13 08:03 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-12 22:14 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-08-13 08:36 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-08-12 20:15 -0400
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-13 00:44 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-08-13 18:25 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-08-13 08:12 +1000
                RE: allow line break at operators "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2011-08-16 15:51 -0400
                RE: allow line break at operators "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2011-08-16 15:26 -0400
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-16 20:19 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-16 21:05 +0100
            Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-11 10:32 +1000
              Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-11 01:47 +0100
              Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-11 04:59 +0000
        Re: allow line break at operators Yingjie Lan <lanyjie@yahoo.com> - 2011-08-10 19:52 -0700
          Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-11 14:18 +1000
            Re: allow line break at operators Chris Rebert <clp2@rebertia.com> - 2011-08-11 00:50 -0700
            Re: allow line break at operators Vito 'ZeD' De Tullio <zak.mc.kraken@libero.it> - 2011-08-11 12:21 +0200
        Re: allow line break at operators Yingjie Lan <lanyjie@yahoo.com> - 2011-08-10 19:58 -0700
        Re: allow line break at operators Chris Rebert <clp2@rebertia.com> - 2011-08-10 21:16 -0700
        Re: allow line break at operators Chris Rebert <clp2@rebertia.com> - 2011-08-10 22:07 -0700
        Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-11 09:24 +0100
        Re: allow line break at operators MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2011-08-11 14:03 +0100
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators Matt Joiner <anacrolix@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 00:28 +1000
          Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-12 12:32 +1000
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators Jakob Bowyer <jkbbwr@gmail.com> - 2011-08-11 16:42 +0100
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators Daniel Greenfeld <pydanny@gmail.com> - 2011-08-11 10:04 -0700
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators Paul Colomiets <paul@colomiets.name> - 2011-08-11 22:17 +0300
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2011-08-11 17:06 -0400
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2011-08-11 17:29 -0400
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators Jim Jewett <jimjjewett@gmail.com> - 2011-08-11 17:39 -0400
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2011-08-11 18:29 -0400
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators Matt Joiner <anacrolix@gmail.com> - 2011-09-02 15:33 +1000
          Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-09-03 12:59 -0400
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org> - 2011-09-02 16:28 +0900
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators Guido van Rossum <guido@python.org> - 2011-09-02 12:30 -0700
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org> - 2011-09-03 13:38 +0900
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org> - 2011-09-03 15:10 +0900
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-09-03 15:01 -0400
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators ron3200 <ron3200@gmail.com> - 2011-09-04 10:22 -0500
          Re: allow line break at operators rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-09-04 11:08 -0700
      Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-11 00:37 +1000
        Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-10 16:13 +0100
        Re: allow line break at operators Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-08-10 09:16 -0600
          Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-11 09:32 +1000
            Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-11 00:55 +0100

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