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Re: allow line break at operators

References (9 earlier) <mailman.2119.1312991808.1164.python-list@python.org> <slrnj45e7s.14vk.usenet-nospam@guild.seebs.net> <87fwl9hr4r.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <slrnj46o4a.1rv9.usenet-nospam@guild.seebs.net> <0604E20B5F6F2F4784C9C8C71C5DD4DD2EA7AF64A2@EMARC112VS01.exchad.jpmchase.net>
Date 2011-08-16 21:05 +0100
Subject Re: allow line break at operators
From Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Message-ID <mailman.100.1313525160.27778.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Prasad, Ramit
<ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> wrote:
> I am not sure why people are so stuck on braces. I figured other people would be like me and tired of having to do things like figuring out where I missed an end brace.
>

I'm one of the fans of braces, but search the list archives and you'll
find plenty of arguments on both sides. I like braces because they
allow me to separate the syntax from the layout; I can choose to
indent things based on logical structure, even when that doesn't
correspond to the compiler's notion of the structure. Here's an
example from C++:

struct _blah
{
    int x;
    int y;
    char **z;
    //etc etc etc
    }; struct blah: public _blah {
    char padding[1024-sizeof(_blah)];
};

The inheritance isn't significant to the overall concept of the object
(the idea was that it should have a size of exactly 1024, as this had
to interface with some lower-level systems), but it's significant to
the compiler's understanding of the object. The braces, therefore,
follow the compiler's requirements, but the indentation follows the
programmer's. (And yes, there were comments explaining things, and
much better element names.)

Another idiom I often use in C or C++ is the "conditional for loop":

for (x=getfirst();x;x=getnext()) if (x%3)
{
    blah
    blah
}

The equivalent in Python:

for x in blah: if x%3:
    blah
    blah

is not legal, and must be written with an extra indentation:

for x in blah:
    if x%3:
        blah
        blah

I'm sure I could sort something out with a filtering generator, but it
seems ridiculous to write:

def condition(gen,func):
    for elem in gen:
        if func(elem): yield elem

for x in condition(blah,lambda x: x%3):
    blah
    blah

There are very good reasons for Python's system, and I don't object to
it *in Python*. But I do not see indentation-as-structure as the
ultimate and perfect system, and I desire and intend to preserve the
freedom to choose languages with different systems.

Chris Angelico

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Thread

Re: allow line break at operators Yingjie Lan <lanyjie@yahoo.com> - 2011-08-09 23:05 -0700
  Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-10 18:32 +1000
    Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-10 09:39 +0100
    Re: allow line break at operators Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2011-08-10 09:56 +0000
      Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-11 00:44 +1000
    Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-10 11:26 +0100
      Re: allow line break at operators Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2011-08-10 12:25 +0000
        Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-10 13:42 +0100
        Re: allow line break at operators Yingjie Lan <lanyjie@yahoo.com> - 2011-08-10 05:58 -0700
        Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-10 15:45 +0100
        Re: allow line break at operators Yingjie Lan <lanyjie@yahoo.com> - 2011-08-10 06:19 -0700
        Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-10 16:56 +0100
          Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-10 17:55 +0000
            Re: allow line break at operators Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-08-11 07:51 +1000
              Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-10 23:42 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2011-08-11 14:40 +0000
              Re: Python & Sullivan Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2011-08-10 18:26 -0500
                Re: Python & Sullivan Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-08-11 10:57 +1000
              Re: Python & Sullivan Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-11 00:54 +0100
              Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-11 04:59 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-08-11 15:56 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-11 21:19 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 00:58 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-12 11:40 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 08:09 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2011-08-12 12:57 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Thomas Rachel <nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915@spamschutz.glglgl.de> - 2011-08-12 14:54 +0200
                Re: allow line break at operators Tim Roberts <timr@probo.com> - 2011-08-14 22:22 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-08-12 18:59 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-12 20:40 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-08-12 21:16 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-12 16:33 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-11 22:29 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-11 22:40 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-11 21:19 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-11 21:19 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2011-08-11 15:43 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-12 06:34 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 08:20 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 08:33 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 20:52 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-12 16:33 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-08-12 20:39 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Rebert <clp2@rebertia.com> - 2011-08-12 10:03 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-12 18:37 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-12 16:33 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 21:01 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-12 21:06 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 08:26 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-12 16:33 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 10:57 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 21:09 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-12 21:06 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-13 08:39 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 23:50 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-08-13 09:19 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2011-08-12 18:53 -0500
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-13 00:39 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-08-13 10:57 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-13 02:34 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-08-13 18:50 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-08-13 19:07 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-08-13 18:59 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-14 17:10 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-14 08:07 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-08-14 19:25 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-15 00:26 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-08-14 11:35 -0400
                Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-15 03:24 +1000
                Re: Re: allow line break at operators Dave Angel <davea@ieee.org> - 2011-08-14 17:46 -0400
                Re: allow line break at operators Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-08-14 18:46 -0400
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-15 00:02 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-14 16:39 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-15 03:26 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-14 19:01 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-15 11:54 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Rebert <clp2@rebertia.com> - 2011-08-14 19:10 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-15 04:28 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2011-08-15 06:40 -0500
                Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-15 23:30 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-15 16:32 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-08-15 21:13 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-08-15 21:37 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-08-15 23:49 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-08-16 11:56 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-15 04:28 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-08-15 03:31 -0400
                Re: allow line break at operators rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-08-15 14:21 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-15 09:27 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-14 09:34 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-08-14 19:27 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2011-08-14 03:51 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-14 12:59 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2011-08-14 12:46 +0300
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-14 19:01 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-14 19:01 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Rebert <clp2@rebertia.com> - 2011-08-14 01:44 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2011-08-16 07:04 +0300
                Re: allow line break at operators rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-08-13 19:18 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-08-13 13:19 +1200
                Re: allow line break at operators Johann Hibschman <jhibschman+usenet@gmail.com> - 2011-08-15 08:27 -0500
                Re: allow line break at operators Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-08-15 09:41 -0400
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-15 15:16 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-08-15 20:34 -0400
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-16 01:37 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-16 00:28 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-15 15:42 +0100
                Re: allow line break at operators Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-08-15 20:30 -0400
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-16 00:39 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-08-16 12:43 +1200
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-15 16:32 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2011-08-12 13:35 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-12 21:06 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-13 08:03 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-12 22:14 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-08-13 08:36 +1000
                Re: allow line break at operators Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-08-12 20:15 -0400
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-13 00:44 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-08-13 18:25 -0700
                Re: allow line break at operators Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-08-13 08:12 +1000
                RE: allow line break at operators "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2011-08-16 15:51 -0400
                RE: allow line break at operators "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2011-08-16 15:26 -0400
                Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-16 20:19 +0000
                Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-16 21:05 +0100
            Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-11 10:32 +1000
              Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-11 01:47 +0100
              Re: allow line break at operators Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-11 04:59 +0000
        Re: allow line break at operators Yingjie Lan <lanyjie@yahoo.com> - 2011-08-10 19:52 -0700
          Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-11 14:18 +1000
            Re: allow line break at operators Chris Rebert <clp2@rebertia.com> - 2011-08-11 00:50 -0700
            Re: allow line break at operators Vito 'ZeD' De Tullio <zak.mc.kraken@libero.it> - 2011-08-11 12:21 +0200
        Re: allow line break at operators Yingjie Lan <lanyjie@yahoo.com> - 2011-08-10 19:58 -0700
        Re: allow line break at operators Chris Rebert <clp2@rebertia.com> - 2011-08-10 21:16 -0700
        Re: allow line break at operators Chris Rebert <clp2@rebertia.com> - 2011-08-10 22:07 -0700
        Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-11 09:24 +0100
        Re: allow line break at operators MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2011-08-11 14:03 +0100
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators Matt Joiner <anacrolix@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 00:28 +1000
          Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-12 12:32 +1000
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators Jakob Bowyer <jkbbwr@gmail.com> - 2011-08-11 16:42 +0100
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators Daniel Greenfeld <pydanny@gmail.com> - 2011-08-11 10:04 -0700
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators Paul Colomiets <paul@colomiets.name> - 2011-08-11 22:17 +0300
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2011-08-11 17:06 -0400
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2011-08-11 17:29 -0400
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators Jim Jewett <jimjjewett@gmail.com> - 2011-08-11 17:39 -0400
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2011-08-11 18:29 -0400
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators Matt Joiner <anacrolix@gmail.com> - 2011-09-02 15:33 +1000
          Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-09-03 12:59 -0400
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org> - 2011-09-02 16:28 +0900
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators Guido van Rossum <guido@python.org> - 2011-09-02 12:30 -0700
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org> - 2011-09-03 13:38 +0900
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org> - 2011-09-03 15:10 +0900
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-09-03 15:01 -0400
        Re: [Python-ideas] allow line break at operators ron3200 <ron3200@gmail.com> - 2011-09-04 10:22 -0500
          Re: allow line break at operators rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-09-04 11:08 -0700
      Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-11 00:37 +1000
        Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-10 16:13 +0100
        Re: allow line break at operators Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-08-10 09:16 -0600
          Re: allow line break at operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-11 09:32 +1000
            Re: allow line break at operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-11 00:55 +0100

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