X-FeedAbuse: http://nntpfeed.proxad.net/abuse.pl feeded by 88.191.16.109 Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!usenet.pasdenom.info!gegeweb.42!gegeweb.eu!nntpfeed.proxad.net!nospam.fr.eu.org!usenet-fr.net!de-l.enfer-du-nord.net!feeder2.enfer-du-nord.net!newsfeed.eweka.nl!eweka.nl!feeder3.eweka.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed6.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'python,': 0.01; 'languages,': 0.03; 'attempting': 0.04; 'completeness': 0.05; 'suppose': 0.05; '>they': 0.09; 'admit': 0.09; 'braces': 0.09; 'coding,': 0.09; 'eclipse': 0.09; 'figuring': 0.09; 'hostile.': 0.09; 'readable': 0.09; 'programmer': 0.10; '712': 0.16; ':-p': 0.16; 'currencies': 0.16; 'defending': 0.16; 'disclaimers': 0.16; 'disclaimers,': 0.16; 'downside': 0.16; 'elephant': 0.16; 'from:addr:jpmorgan.com': 0.16; 'hell,': 0.16; 'insulted': 0.16; 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'want,': 0.71; 'subject:line': 0.73; 'url:email': 0.74; 'sale': 0.75; 'bank': 0.76; 'investment': 0.77; 'hot': 0.82; 'purchase': 0.84; 'honestly,': 0.84; 'invested': 0.84; 'neither.': 0.84; 'rave': 0.84; 'room.': 0.84; 'desperate': 0.91; 'good,': 0.91; 'acknowledge': 0.96 X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.5.6 sj2.jpmchase.com p7GJQjEC001835 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=jpmorgan.com; s=smtpout; t=1313522805; bh=QUcxe+XUhSjg6WiknvPAST8VJzmvqbSdfQE/3bY l3gc=; h=From:To:Date:Subject:Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Jd327TBuYrj xIpVq8PcCfEvrtsg/+pG2V15BzkwLZ1crmZ6jfCC2Sm8gtRJhV8MOrEHxB+Jozz7zfx TDlsXYwGwcYsDpmSl347HnW5kXg5X/A9tgs+A8AZvkcZ3upcjfwAOVv1aFLi0HlR26b 5EMJjNcAKfyZ7XNdDMWkvcKhds= From: "Prasad, Ramit" To: Seebs , "python-list@python.org" Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 15:26:37 -0400 Subject: RE: allow line break at operators Thread-Topic: allow line break at operators Thread-Index: AcxX5aVhEGJtTPrFTimtUSaRg/DKTwEYhA6w References: <1312951356.77394.YahooMailNeo@web121518.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4e424208$0$29965$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <1312981104.89312.YahooMailNeo@web121520.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1312982377.95657.YahooMailNeo@web121508.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <87fwl9hr4r.fsf@benfinney.id.au> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DLP-FWD: Yes Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 39 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1313523921 news.xs4all.nl 23942 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:47748 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.python:11606 >1=2E Indentation as flow control was a bad idea=2E=0D=0A>2=2E People are= subconsciously aware of this=2E=0D=0A>3=2E There is a HUGE degree of emot= ional investment in defending it=2E=0D=0A>=0D=0A>The responses I have seen = on this issue are highly emotional, full of insults,=0D=0A>full of blame-th= rowing, and utterly contrary to the basic engineering spirit=0D=0A>I usuall= y see in programming communities=2E In other languages, and even in=0D=0A>= Python on any issue but this one, I regularly see people acknowledge=0D=0A>= shortcomings and explain either why they think the tradeoffs are good, or w= hy=0D=0A>they are willing to put up with it anyway=2E=0D=0A>=0D=0A>The char= acteristic vehemence and hostility this issue produces are the surest=0D=0A= >sign of people who have a desperate need not to acknowledge the elephant i= n=0D=0A>the room=2E=0D=0A=0D=0AWhat exactly is the downside to indentation = as flow control? I am a fairly new programmer to Python, but the more I use= it, the more I think it has the Right idea (for me at least)=2E I find bra= ces in Java/c[#,++] to be less than helpful in comparison to how people rav= e over=2E It allows for free form code sure, but half the time I was using = indentation to figure out where conditional branching/loops started and sto= pped anyway! I will admit it was super useful in helping Eclipse to reforma= t with a more "readable" indentation=2E The only difference is that now it = forces me to make more readable code instead of allowing me the freedom to = make hard to read code=2E I suppose as an American I should be insulted at = the lack of freedom=2E Hell, I own Apple products; I must be getting indoct= rinated into a lack of freedom=2E :-P=0D=0A=0D=0AI am not being vehement or= hostile=2E At least I am attempting to be neither=2E I do not really feel = emotionally invested in either because honestly, I will do whatever I have = to for what I am trying to get done=2E If that requires me coding while onl= y wearing hot pink or using braces I will do it=2E I am far more concerned = with ease of coding, ability to do what I want, and occasionally (fairly ra= rely) if the running code will be "fast enough"=2E=0D=0A=0D=0AI am not sure= why people are so stuck on braces=2E I figured other people would be like = me and tired of having to do things like figuring out where I missed an end= brace=2E =0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0ARamit=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0ARamit Prasad | JPMorgan = Chase Investment Bank | Currencies Technology=0D=0A712 Main Street | Housto= n, TX 77002=0D=0Awork phone: 713 - 216 - 5423=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A= This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and=0D=0Aco= nditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of=0D=0Asecurities, a= ccuracy and completeness of information, viruses,=0D=0Aconfidentiality, leg= al privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,=0D=0Aavailable at http://www=2E= jpmorgan=2Ecom/pages/disclosures/email=2E