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Re: Feedback on my python framework I'm building.

Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Date 2012-10-13 11:18 -0700
References <634c9dca-e64d-40c6-b9d5-cf04a86a220a@googlegroups.com> <mailman.2116.1350137553.27098.python-list@python.org> <4c7a82ca-de0c-4b8b-a128-9ecd1b4c8b31@googlegroups.com> <mailman.2124.1350146902.27098.python-list@python.org>
Subject Re: Feedback on my python framework I'm building.
From nbvfour@gmail.com
Message-ID <mailman.2130.1350152329.27098.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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On Saturday, October 13, 2012 12:48:23 PM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
> No, I don't, because I haven't tried to use it. But allow me to give
> two examples, one on each side of the argument.
> 
> The 'tee' utility is primarily for writing a pipe to disk AND to
> further pipelining, for instance:

Could you please spent 10 minutes to read through the tutorial? The 'tee' unix utility and ctypes describes the way giotto goes about it business very well. Traditional web frameworks (such as django and rails) are too much of a 'magic the gathering' for my taste, which is why I'm writing giotto.

I'm really not looking for general "why I hate frameworks" criticism. I'm looking for specific criticism of the framework that I am writing.

> This is, in my opinion, not a good thing. If you have to change your
> API radically to support something you just thought of, then something
> you still haven't thought of may require another radical API change.

Not all api's get it right on the first shot. I'm more interested in getting it right, rather than patching together a bunch of random 'fixes' ala PHP.

> The only way to support *absolutely everything* is to do nothing - to
> be a framework so thin you're invisible. (That's not to say you're

You just described what Giotto is trying to do, since Giotto doesn't touch the model at all.

>  This is why I say it's likely not a good thing that your framework
> *forces* the separation of model/view/controller. You make it
> impossible to temporarily ignore the framework.

Exactly. When you 'break out of the framework' you pile on technical debt. I want to force developers to not do that.

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Thread

Feedback on my python framework I'm building. nbvfour@gmail.com - 2012-10-12 21:49 -0700
  Re: Feedback on my python framework I'm building. Etienne Robillard <animelovin@gmail.com> - 2012-10-13 04:18 -0400
  Re: Feedback on my python framework I'm building. Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-10-14 01:12 +1100
    Re: Feedback on my python framework I'm building. nbvfour@gmail.com - 2012-10-13 08:57 -0700
      Re: Feedback on my python framework I'm building. Etienne Robillard <animelovin@gmail.com> - 2012-10-13 12:10 -0400
      Re: Feedback on my python framework I'm building. Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-10-14 03:48 +1100
        Re: Feedback on my python framework I'm building. nbvfour@gmail.com - 2012-10-13 11:18 -0700
          Re: Feedback on my python framework I'm building. Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-10-14 05:33 +1100
            Re: Feedback on my python framework I'm building. nbvfour@gmail.com - 2012-10-13 15:24 -0700
              Re: Feedback on my python framework I'm building. Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-10-14 10:06 +1100
              Re: Feedback on my python framework I'm building. Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-10-14 02:25 +0000
                Re: one obvious parser (was "Feedback on my python framework I'm building.") Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2012-10-13 21:53 -0500
                Re: Feedback on my python framework I'm building. MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2012-10-14 03:58 +0100
            Re: Feedback on my python framework I'm building. nbvfour@gmail.com - 2012-10-13 15:24 -0700
            Re: Feedback on my python framework I'm building. Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-10-14 03:37 +0000
              Re: Feedback on my python framework I'm building. Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-10-14 15:20 +1100
              Re: Feedback on my python framework I'm building. Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-10-14 08:48 -0400
                Re: Feedback on my python framework I'm building. Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2012-10-14 18:38 -0400
                Re: Feedback on my python framework I'm building. MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2012-10-15 00:40 +0100
                Re: Feedback on my python framework I'm building. Roel Schroeven <roel@roelschroeven.net> - 2012-10-15 19:29 +0200
        Re: Feedback on my python framework I'm building. nbvfour@gmail.com - 2012-10-13 11:18 -0700
      Re: Feedback on my python framework I'm building. Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2012-10-14 01:43 +0100
    Re: Feedback on my python framework I'm building. nbvfour@gmail.com - 2012-10-13 08:57 -0700
  Re: Feedback on my python framework I'm building. Etienne Robillard <animelovin@gmail.com> - 2012-10-13 10:44 -0400

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