Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > comp.lang.python > #71198
| From | Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.python |
| Subject | Re: Pass variable by reference |
| Date | 2014-05-09 17:30 -0500 |
| Organization | Aioe.org NNTP Server |
| Message-ID | <lkjktj$hr0$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink) |
| References | (2 earlier) <mailman.9710.1399408799.18130.python-list@python.org> <lkbigv$ban$1@speranza.aioe.org> <mailman.9713.1399419985.18130.python-list@python.org> <lkdt0u$moc$1@speranza.aioe.org> <mailman.9754.1399512719.18130.python-list@python.org> |
On 5/7/14 8:31 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 4:11 AM, Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> wrote:
>> And we must never forget that CPython's underpinnings, uhm C, uses
>> variables, C ones... (never mind)
>
> Be careful of this one. It's utterly irrelevant to your point, and may
> be distracting. I could implement Ook in Python; does that mean that
> Ook has a socket library? Clearly not.
Probably. Although, its turtles all the way down. C is a better way
to write asm code (more efficient, less lines of code, better
abstraction, way more readable). wow, use C to build Python. Python is
requires way less lines of code than C, better abstraction, more
efficient, and way more readable. Now, down under the stack of turtles,
we are still placing values into memory boxes (variables) although we
are getting there from a very abstract and indirect way; but its turtles
all the way down from a certain point of view.
On the other hand, if we are coming at this from the highest level
(strictly pure Python coding) all we care about is abstracting the real
world by constructing objects which interact with the rest of the world
and with themselves. We are no longer interested in modeling memory
(although that does happen somewhere) --- what we are interested in is
modeling life and the objects of life. The mechanism of {name: object}
is so far above the simple name -- value pair mechanism we used to call
'variables' (boxes holding native types) that we really need some new
name for the concept... is a Python 'name' a variable. No. Then what is
it? If we call it a variable (what ever we mean by that) someone is
going to be confused as they try to write Python code. What should it be
referred to?
Someone said it is silly to say that Python has no variables. I
disagree. We need a way to speak about Python variables that highlights
the distinctions which create for new coders (and some old ones too) the
misunderstandings and surprises which spark a debate like this one. As
someone else pointed out its a both|and. I suppose I agree. OTOH:
A = 7
Seven is not a C integer native type, and A is not a static int
variable. 7 is an object, and the name A is bound to it. What shall we
call A ?
object nomenclature : A is objname, objhandle, OBH. or just handle.
I think we need to stop calling it a variable.
marcus
Back to comp.lang.python | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread
Re: Pass variable by reference Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-05-06 16:31 -0400
Re: Pass variable by reference Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-06 16:00 -0500
Re: Pass variable by reference Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-05-06 17:27 -0400
Re: Pass variable by reference Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-07 09:46 +1000
Re: Pass variable by reference Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-06 19:18 -0700
Re: Pass variable by reference Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-07 12:39 +1000
Re: Pass variable by reference Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-06 19:54 -0700
Re: Pass variable by reference Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-07 04:59 +0000
Re: Pass variable by reference Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-07 13:11 -0500
Re: Pass variable by reference Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-08 00:22 +0300
Values and objects [was Re: Pass variable by reference] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-08 01:08 +0000
Re: Values and objects [was Re: Pass variable by reference] Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 16:56 -0500
Re: Values and objects Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-10 01:34 +0300
Re: Values and objects Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-10 10:24 +1000
Re: Values and objects Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-10 01:01 +0000
Re: Values and objects Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 19:19 -0700
Re: Values and objects Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-10 12:33 +1000
Re: Values and objects Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 20:05 -0700
Re: Values and objects Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 23:15 -0500
Re: Values and objects Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-10 06:15 +0000
Re: Values and objects Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-10 17:21 +1000
Re: Values and objects Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-10 09:09 +0000
Re: Values and objects Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-10 19:32 +1000
Re: Values and objects Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-10 12:10 -0700
Re: Values and objects MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-05-10 20:22 +0100
Re: Values and objects Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-10 12:28 -0700
Re: Values and objects Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-05-10 16:16 -0400
Re: Values and objects Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-05-10 16:24 -0400
Re: Values and objects Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2014-05-10 14:03 -0700
Re: Values and objects Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-11 03:17 +0000
Re: Values and objects Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 13:30 +1000
Re: Values and objects Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-11 05:11 +0000
Re: Values and objects Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 15:22 +1000
Re: Values and objects Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-10 22:31 -0700
Re: Values and objects Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-11 09:21 +0300
Re: Values and objects Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-10 23:48 -0700
Re: Values and objects Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-11 18:10 +0300
Re: Values and objects Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2014-05-11 11:26 +0300
Re: Values and objects Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 01:48 -0700
Re: Values and objects Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2014-05-11 15:22 +0300
Re: Values and objects Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-11 18:46 +0300
Re: Values and objects Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-11 22:56 +0300
Re: Values and objects Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-11 12:51 +0000
Re: Values and objects Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 07:12 -0700
Re: Values and objects Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-10 22:42 -0700
Re: Values and objects Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-11 06:40 +0000
Re: Values and objects Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 09:18 +1000
Re: Values and objects Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-11 03:11 +0000
Re: Values and objects Rotwang <sg552@hotmail.co.uk> - 2014-05-11 14:46 +0100
Re: Values and objects Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-05-11 14:40 -0400
Re: Values and objects Rotwang <sg552@hotmail.co.uk> - 2014-05-12 00:06 +0100
Re: Values and objects Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-10 18:28 -0700
Re: Values and objects Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-11 07:24 +0000
Re: Values and objects Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 11:59 +1000
Re: Values and objects Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-11 07:29 +0000
Re: Values and objects Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-10 21:46 -0700
Re: [Python-Dev] Values and objects Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 16:08 +1000
Re: Values and objects albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-17 14:26 +0000
Re: Values and objects Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-10 11:58 +1000
Re: Values and objects Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-10 10:57 +0300
Re: Values and objects Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2014-05-10 11:06 +0300
Re: Values and objects Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-05-10 12:07 -0400
Re: Pass variable by reference Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 11:31 +1000
Re: Pass variable by reference Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 17:30 -0500
Abstractions [was Re: Pass variable by reference] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-10 00:58 +0000
Re: Abstractions [was Re: Pass variable by reference] Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 21:17 -0500
Re: Pass variable by reference Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-07 01:14 +0000
csiph-web