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| From | Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.misc |
| Subject | simplicity / complexity |
| Date | 2025-08-26 18:42 +0000 |
| Organization | Dbus-free station. |
| Message-ID | <y2C3FavstjxdDZ-_@violet.siamics.net> (permalink) |
| References | <107u4ha$2osd4$1@dont-email.me> <107vicd$2u7bl$1@dont-email.me> <107vkg0$36qlh$1@dont-email.me> <1080dts$2u7bm$2@dont-email.me> <1080hed$3f6hn$1@dont-email.me> |
>>>>> On 2025-08-19, Janis Papanagnou wrote: >>>>> On 19.08.2025 01:45, Andy Walker wrote: >>>> If you're worried about 15%, that will be more than compensated >>>> for by your next computer! >>> Actually I'm very conservative concerning computers; mine is 15+ >>> years old, and although I "recently" thought about getting an >>> update here it's not my priority. ;-) >> Ah. I thought I was bad, keeping computers 10 years or so! I got >> a new one a couple of years back, and the difference in speed and >> storage was just ridiculous. Reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-waste , I'm inclined to think that keeping computers for a decade might be not so bad a thing after all. > Well, used software tools (and their updates) required me to at > least upgrade memory! (That's actually one point that annoys me > in "modern" software development; rarely anyone seems to care > economizing resource requirements.) I doubt it's so much lack of care as it is simply being not a priority. Still, all the more reason to direct attention to the cases where such care /is/ given. Thankfully, the problem /is/ a known one (say, [1]), and IME, there still /are/ lean programs to choose from. By the by, I've been looking for "simple" self-hosting compilers recently - something with source that a semi-dedicated person can read through in reasonable time. What I've found so far is Pygmy Forth (naturally, I guess) and the T3X family of languages [2]. Are there perhaps other such compilers worthy of mention? [1] http://spectrum.ieee.org/lean-software-development [2] http://pygmy.utoh.org/pygmyforth.html [3] http://t3x.org/t3x/ I'll also try to address here specific points raised elsewhere in this thread, particularly news:1087qgv$14ret$1@dont-email.me . First, the 4e7 lines of Linux code is somewhat unfair a measure. On my system, less than 5% of individual modules built from the Linux source are loaded right now: $ lsmod | wc -l 175 $ find /lib/modules/6.1.0-37-amd64/ -xdev -type f -name \*.ko | wc -l 4024 $ That value would of course vary from system to system, but I'd think it's safe to say that in at least 90% of all deployments, less than 10% of Linux code will be loaded at any given time. For those who are looking for a system with more "comprehensible" sources, I would recommend NetBSD. And if anything, I personally find its list of supported platforms, http://netbsd.org/ports/ , fairly impressive. Don't get me wrong: NetBSD won't fit for every use case Linux-based systems cover - the complexity of the Linux kernel isn't there for nothing - but just in case you /can/ live with a "limited" OS (say, one that doesn't support Docker), thanks to NetBSD, you /do/ have that option. With regards to applications, while binary distributions tend to opt to have the most "fully functional" built of any given package - from whence come lots of dependencies - a source-based one allows /you/ to choose what you need. And pkgsrc for NetBSD is such a distribution. Gentoo is a Linux-based distribution along the same lines. As to websites and JS libraries, for the past 25 years I've been using as my primary one a browser, Lynx, that never had support for JS, and likely never will have. IME, an /awful lot/ of websites are usable and useful entirely without JS. For those interested, I've recently made several comments in defense of "JS-free" web and web browsers, such as [4, 5, 6]. [4] news:ID351XcOrll9pkb7@violet.siamics.net [5] news:6brTAD5tWnddeHXd@violet.siamics.net [6] news:ii6tqUtTe0Vi-Fnh@violet.siamics.net
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Algol 68 / Genie - opinions on local procedures? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-08-18 04:52 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - opinions on local procedures? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-08-18 16:54 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - opinions on local procedures? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-08-18 18:30 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - opinions on local procedures? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-08-19 00:45 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - opinions on local procedures? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-08-19 02:44 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - opinions on local procedures? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-08-20 00:47 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - opinions on local procedures? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-20 00:43 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - opinions on local procedures? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-08-20 23:58 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - opinions on local procedures? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-21 02:59 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - opinions on local procedures? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-08-23 00:42 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - opinions on local procedures? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-08-23 02:29 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - opinions on local procedures? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-23 02:36 +0000
Economizing resource requirements (was Re: Algol 68 / Genie - opinions on local procedures?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-08-21 21:02 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - opinions on local procedures? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-10-04 01:11 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - opinions on local procedures? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-04 03:37 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - opinions on local procedures? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-10-07 22:03 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - opinions on local procedures? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-07 22:04 +0000
Various digressions (was Re: Algol 68 / Genie - opinions on local procedures?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-08 01:27 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - opinions on local procedures? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-10-10 01:11 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - opinions on local procedures? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-10 01:39 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - opinions on local procedures? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-10-11 12:47 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - opinions on local procedures? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-10-08 17:04 +0000
simplicity / complexity Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-08-26 18:42 +0000
Re: simplicity / complexity Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-27 00:28 +0000
Re: simplicity / complexity Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-08-30 19:10 +0000
Re: simplicity / complexity Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-30 22:43 +0000
[OT] NetBSD vs. Linux(-based systems) Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-09-04 18:50 +0000
Re: [OT] NetBSD vs. Linux(-based systems) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-05 00:03 +0000
Re: [OT] NetBSD vs. Linux(-based systems) Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-09-07 15:55 +0000
Re: [OT] NetBSD vs. Linux(-based systems) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-07 21:17 +0000
Re: [OT] NetBSD vs. Linux(-based systems) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-09-05 12:02 +0000
Re: [OT] NetBSD vs. Linux(-based systems) Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-09-07 16:30 +0000
Re: simplicity / complexity Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-08-27 07:53 +0200
Re: simplicity / complexity Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-08-30 19:39 +0000
Re: simplicity / complexity Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-30 22:45 +0000
Re: simplicity / complexity Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-08-31 13:35 +0000
Re: simplicity / complexity Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-31 22:40 +0000
[OT] free software Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-09-04 18:25 +0000
Re: simplicity / complexity antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-10-08 14:03 +0000
Re: simplicity / complexity Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-08 16:21 +0200
Re: simplicity / complexity John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-10-08 08:08 -0700
Re: simplicity / complexity Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-08 21:18 +0000
Re: simplicity / complexity John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-10-08 14:31 -0700
Re: simplicity / complexity Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-09 00:09 +0000
Re: simplicity / complexity John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-10-09 08:44 -0700
Re: simplicity / complexity Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-09 21:52 +0000
Re: simplicity / complexity John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-10-09 15:21 -0700
Re: simplicity / complexity antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-10-09 00:34 +0000
Re: simplicity / complexity Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-09 03:48 +0200
Re: simplicity / complexity ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2025-10-08 14:53 +0000
Re: simplicity / complexity ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2025-10-08 15:24 +0000
Re: simplicity / complexity antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-10-09 01:39 +0000
Re: simplicity / complexity Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-09 04:00 +0200
Re: simplicity / complexity antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-10-09 14:19 +0000
Re: simplicity / complexity ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2025-10-09 14:48 +0000
Re: simplicity / complexity Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-10 12:36 +0200
Re: simplicity / complexity Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-10 12:09 +0200
Re: simplicity / complexity Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-08-31 08:32 +0200
Re: simplicity / complexity Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-08-31 08:34 +0200
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