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Re: Logging problem

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Novice wrote:
> Lew wrote:
>> Novice wrote:
>>> Arved Sandstrom wrote:
>>>> Novice wrote:
>>>> [ SNIP ]
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be very helpful if someone could explain what would
>>>>> happen in a real-world production situation where a long-running
>>>>> batch program or a constantly-running online program started
>>>>> writing error messages to the log. What will operators do to be
>>>>> able to read the log? I'm guessing they force it to close early
>>>>> and then start a new file or they have a tool that will read the
>>>>> log file correctly even without the final</log>  tag.
>>
>> As mentioned, "tail" or "tail -f".
>>
>> Or vi or emacs.
>>
>> Or "less".
>>
>> Or just about anything.
>>
> Okay. As I said, my Unix/Linux is pretty rusty.

Wha...?

These programs run on Windows, too.

This is about OSes. Windows is like Linux in this regard.

>> Have you looked at any real system's logs?
>>
> No.
>> You should.
>>
> I agree. Can you point me to any? I don't have any.

Go to your nearest real system and ask to see the logs.

A lot of Apache projects use log4j. Run one of those.

>>>> As for how do ops support folks read ongoing stuff? Well, surely
>>>> you must have used 'tail',
>>>
>>> I haven't worked on Unix/Linux in a while but I have used 'tail' ;-)
>>> Frankly, I don't recall if it works on open files but from you've
>>> said,
>>
>>> apparently it does.
>>
>> "man tail"
>>
>> GIYF.
>>
>
>> If it didn't work on open files, "tail -f" would be pretty useless,
>> now wouldn't it?
>>
> I'm on a Windows system, not a *nix system, and I simply don't remember
> the details of 'tail'. Yes, I could have and would have looked it up if I
> really needed to know. I was just making a passing comment that I didn't
> remember if 'tail' could read an open file.
"
Windows is no different in this regard. This is about reading files as they're 
written, not Linux. You need to know the basics of OSes.

Windows the same thing happens. Substitute "Notepad" for "vi", why don't you?

And "tail" runs on Windows, too. Many programs are available for both Windows 
and Linux. It's the operating system that determines the behavior, not whether 
it's "tail" or some other program.

So stop throwing those red herrings at us, please. Take the coaching and don't 
make the excuses.

>>>> or perhaps opened up a decent programming text
>>>> editor on a file that's being currently written to, or even just
>>>> looked at console output. Apart from some buffering going on (none,
>>
>> That "console output" one should already be way familiar to you.
>>
> Absolutely, I've seen that. But elsewhere in one of the threads I
> started, I think there was a general concensus that we couldn't
> necessarily count on consoles being accessible to everyone who would
> ideally want access to one so I've been trying to think through things
> without taking for granted that there was was a console available. So I
> asked myself what someone without a console might experience....

You're mixing topics. I pointed out the console scenario in the context of 
being able to read a file while it's being written. In no wise does that carry 
over to an inference that I'm recommending its use for logging.

The point you ducked is that this is basic, fundamental, elementary, beginner 
OS knowledge that applies to Windows, too. It's stuff you should already know. 
You must understand the basics of the OS.

If you did, you'd've known that the ability of "tail" to read files as they're 
written is neither a feature of "tail" nor unique to Linux.

-- 
Lew
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Friz.jpg

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Logging problem Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-03-08 19:38 +0000
  Re: Logging problem Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-08 14:48 -0500
    Re: Logging problem Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-03-08 20:06 +0000
      Re: Logging problem Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-08 15:38 -0500
        Re: Logging problem Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-03-08 22:02 +0000
      Re: Logging problem Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-03-08 14:53 -0800
        Re: Logging problem markspace <-@.> - 2012-03-08 15:20 -0800
          Re: Logging problem Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-08 19:48 -0500
            Re: Logging problem Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-03-08 17:17 -0800
              Re: Logging problem Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-08 20:55 -0500
                Re: Logging problem markspace <-@.> - 2012-03-08 18:01 -0800
                Re: Logging problem Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-08 21:19 -0500
      Re: Logging problem Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-08 20:56 -0500
  Re: Logging problem markspace <-@.> - 2012-03-08 14:18 -0800
    Re: Logging problem Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-03-09 01:53 +0000
      Re: Logging problem Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-08 20:59 -0500
      Re: Logging problem Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-03-09 05:36 +0000
        Re: Logging problem Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-03-09 06:27 -0800
        Re: Logging problem Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-09 12:31 -0500
          Re: Logging problem Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-03-09 18:57 +0000
            Re: Logging problem Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-09 14:26 -0500
        Re: Logging problem Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-03-09 15:59 -0400
          Re: Logging problem Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-03-09 21:32 +0000
            Re: Logging problem Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-03-09 13:56 -0800
              Re: Logging problem Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-03-09 22:57 +0000
                Re: Logging problem Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-03-10 14:51 +0000
                Re: Logging problem Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-03-10 13:00 -0400
                Re: Logging problem Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-03-10 10:04 -0800
                Re: Logging problem Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-03-10 20:23 +0000
                Re: Logging problem Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-03-10 07:56 -0800
                Re: Logging problem Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-10 12:05 -0500
                Re: Logging problem Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-03-10 10:10 -0800
                Re: Logging problem Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-12 16:13 -0400
                Re: Logging problem Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-03-10 20:10 +0000
            Re: Logging problem Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-03-09 19:15 -0400
              Re: Logging problem Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-03-10 01:59 +0000

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