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Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils?

From BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils?
Date 2011-11-02 20:53 -0700
Organization albasani.net
Message-ID <j8t37v$j9f$1@news.albasani.net> (permalink)
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On 11/2/2011 3:35 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 11/2/2011 6:26 PM, markspace wrote:
>> On 11/2/2011 3:01 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> Java ME has imploded in the cellphone market in recent years.
>>
>> You mean Java ME has been deprecated by developers? Not sure, just
>> asking.
>
> The capabilities of modern smartphones and the possibilities of
> Java ME does not really match.
>
> Developer interest for Java ME is pretty low today.
>

granted, Java ME (AKA: JME or J2ME) can be taken as a sort of "baseline 
Java subset", since it represents roughly the core feature-set of the 
language (absent GUI or the mountain of "other stuff" found in Java SE), 
nevermind if Java ME proper is not in-itself sufficient to do a whole 
lot useful with it.


> Only smartphone provider still supporting Java ME is RIM (BB).
>

what about Java ME for non-standard JVM's on the PC?...

ok, nevermind, I implemented such a beast, and it was rather lame.
(I tried using it, I was not terribly compelled to use it...).


granted, Java ME is "reasonably close" to the "common API subset" 
between Java and my own language (BGBScript), however the packages were 
renamed (mostly from "java.lang" and "java.io" and similar to 
"bsvm.lang" and "bsvm.io" and similar), and also the HLL is a bit 
different (the syntax is much closer to ActionScript).

technically, this library code was essentially just the class-library 
code I wrote for my half-assed J2ME (CLDC) implementation (written clean 
going from the specs), but similarly half-assedly ported to BGBScript. 
likewise goes for some amount of VM architecture and similar.

more common at the moment though is to do stuff via just using the FFI 
to call into C land.


>>> And Java SE is not there.
>>>
>>> The only thing out there is Android.
>>
>> While I was ranting about compatibility earlier, I should have added
>> that I think the best thing for Google and Android to do is to trade
>> some cash and code for rights, and make Android the new Java ME, and
>> bury Java ME in the darkest hole available. If we could at least reduce
>> the available standards, I think we'd all actually have something more.
>
> Yes!
>
> Java ME SCDC (Super Connected Device Configuration)!!
>

yes, except there would be a few possible edge-cases between this and 
Java SE.

it would seem a little silly to have both the Android GUI and AWT/Swing 
on all targets. I would personally rather have Android gain a more 
"sane" GUI (such as Swing), than be faced with their GUI funkiness 
elsewhere.


>>> You could say that is not bad, but Java certainly has
>>> its challenges in the cellphone market.
>>
>>
>> Don't know about this. Java seems to be doing well under Android. I
>> think its major challenge is that Apple insists on running their own
>> proprietary stuff.
>
> Neither iOS nor WP supports Java. Only Android.
>

yeah.

Android is C, C++, and Java.
iOS is mostly C, C++, and Objective-C.
Windows Phone is mostly C, C++, and C#.

there seems maybe there is a pattern...


funny thing is, I can write some C code, and have it work mostly 
unmodified between Windows (x86/x64), Linux (x86/x86-64/ARM), Android, ...

yes, it does require a few ifdef's, and per-target build files, 
recompilation, ... but technically it does work.

it could presumably also be made to work on iOS and WP, except I lack 
any devices to test with.

which is more portable then?...


note, this is not intended as me "hating on" Java, but rather matters as 
they would seem to be.


> That is a lower market share than Java ME had in the dumbphone
> market.
>

yep, sad.



>> A big win for Java, if Oracle is smart, would be to get Google to
>> support the full Java SE runtime on the larger Android devices, like
>> tablets.
>
> Yes!!!
>

agreed...

convincing them to make it better is a much better option than trying to 
sue them.

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Thread

back to .Net? lesser of two evils? jebblue <n@n.nnn> - 2011-10-28 15:29 -0500
  Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2011-10-28 15:16 -0700
    Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-11-02 07:05 -0300
    Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-02 22:46 -0400
  Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-01 22:18 -0400
    Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-01 22:35 -0700
      Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Cindy <c.thurston@frell.okb.uwa.edu> - 2011-11-02 03:17 -0400
        Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-02 07:58 -0700
          Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-02 18:06 -0400
            Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-03 00:01 -0700
              Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-03 20:48 -0400
              Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-03 20:52 -0400
                Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-09 07:21 -0700
                Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-09 20:30 -0500
                Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-09 22:48 -0700
        Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? coder <j-code@speak.invalid> - 2011-11-02 17:36 -0400
          Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 17:13 -0700
          Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Cindy <c.thurston@frell.okb.uwa.edu> - 2011-11-03 00:49 -0400
            Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-03 00:10 -0700
              Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Cindy <c.thurston@frell.okb.uwa.edu> - 2011-11-03 04:41 -0400
                Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-03 05:36 -0700
          Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? thoolen <tholen01@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 23:13 -0700
      Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? markspace <-@.> - 2011-11-02 08:28 -0700
        Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-02 10:04 -0700
          Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? markspace <-@.> - 2011-11-02 10:19 -0700
            Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-02 14:32 -0700
              Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 17:20 -0700
                Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-02 21:34 -0700
                Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-03 20:57 -0400
                Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-09 09:25 -0700
                Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-09 20:25 -0500
                Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-09 23:05 -0700
      Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-02 17:26 -0400
        Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-02 15:01 -0700
          Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-02 18:18 -0400
            Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-02 18:20 -0400
            Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-02 22:30 -0700
              Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-03 21:30 -0400
              Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-03 21:40 -0400
  Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-11-01 23:42 -0700
    Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-02 10:22 -0700
      Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-02 18:02 -0400
        Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-02 20:10 -0700
          Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-03 20:45 -0400
            Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-09 09:56 -0700
    Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-02 18:01 -0400
      Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? markspace <-@.> - 2011-11-02 15:26 -0700
        Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-02 18:35 -0400
          Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-02 20:53 -0700
            Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-03 21:45 -0400
              Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-11-04 05:50 -0300
                Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-11-04 10:39 -0700
                Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-04 17:38 -0400
                Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-11-04 18:47 -0300
              Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-09 10:11 -0700
                Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-09 20:24 -0500
                Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-09 23:42 -0700

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