Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #9800

Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils?

Show all headers | View raw

On 11/3/2011 6:45 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 11/2/2011 11:53 PM, BGB wrote:
>> On 11/2/2011 3:35 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> On 11/2/2011 6:26 PM, markspace wrote:
>>>> On 11/2/2011 3:01 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>> Java ME has imploded in the cellphone market in recent years.
>>>>
>>>> You mean Java ME has been deprecated by developers? Not sure, just
>>>> asking.
>>>
>>> The capabilities of modern smartphones and the possibilities of
>>> Java ME does not really match.
>>>
>>> Developer interest for Java ME is pretty low today.
>>
>> granted, Java ME (AKA: JME or J2ME) can be taken as a sort of "baseline
>> Java subset", since it represents roughly the core feature-set of the
>> language (absent GUI or the mountain of "other stuff" found in Java SE),
>> nevermind if Java ME proper is not in-itself sufficient to do a whole
>> lot useful with it.
>
> It is Java 1.3.1 which is bloody old.
>
>>> Only smartphone provider still supporting Java ME is RIM (BB).
>>
>> what about Java ME for non-standard JVM's on the PC?...
>
> I don't think there has ever been much of a market there.
>
>>>>> And Java SE is not there.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only thing out there is Android.
>>>>
>>>> While I was ranting about compatibility earlier, I should have added
>>>> that I think the best thing for Google and Android to do is to trade
>>>> some cash and code for rights, and make Android the new Java ME, and
>>>> bury Java ME in the darkest hole available. If we could at least 
>>>> reduce
>>>> the available standards, I think we'd all actually have something 
>>>> more.
>>>
>>> Yes!
>>>
>>> Java ME SCDC (Super Connected Device Configuration)!!
>>>
>>
>> yes, except there would be a few possible edge-cases between this and
>> Java SE.
>>
>> it would seem a little silly to have both the Android GUI and AWT/Swing
>> on all targets. I would personally rather have Android gain a more
>> "sane" GUI (such as Swing), than be faced with their GUI funkiness
>> elsewhere.
>
> I doubt that Swing would work well on Android phones.
>
> Maybe JavaFX.
>
> But anyway - it is way to late - the Android is here to stay.
>
>>>>> You could say that is not bad, but Java certainly has
>>>>> its challenges in the cellphone market.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Don't know about this. Java seems to be doing well under Android. I
>>>> think its major challenge is that Apple insists on running their own
>>>> proprietary stuff.
>>>
>>> Neither iOS nor WP supports Java. Only Android.
>>>
>>
>> yeah.
>>
>> Android is C, C++, and Java.
>> iOS is mostly C, C++, and Objective-C.
>> Windows Phone is mostly C, C++, and C#.
>>
>> there seems maybe there is a pattern...
>
> Not really.
>
> Apps for Android is Java (with the possibility of using C/C++ for 
> certain things)
>
> Apps for Android is Objective-C
>
> Apps for WP is C# or VB.NET
>
> C/C++ is practically not used for apps - C/C++ is obviously used a lot
> for OS, VM's etc..
>

but, the same code can be used for all these, whereas the "app" code 
would otherwise have to be almost entirely rewritten for each target.

this may not matter as much if ones "app" is essentially just a GUI with 
a small amount of internal logic (not a lot that can be reasonably made 
portable between UI frameworks), but if non-trivial amounts of code is 
involved, then one is left having to fallback to C or C++...

practically, in my case, the GUI framework portability issue has mostly 
led to me using OpenGL for most UIs, as GL tends to be a bit more 
commonly available than most other options WRT the GUI.

granted, yes, this means that the logic for the UI tends to become 
itself somewhat less "trivial", as one essentially has to transport the 
toolkit/fonts/... with the app.


so, it is tradeoffs...

Back to comp.lang.java.programmer | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar

Thread

Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-11-01 23:42 -0700
  Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-02 10:22 -0700
    Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-02 18:02 -0400
      Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-02 20:10 -0700
        Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-03 20:45 -0400
          Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-09 09:56 -0700
  Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-02 18:01 -0400
    Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? markspace <-@.> - 2011-11-02 15:26 -0700
      Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-02 18:35 -0400
        Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-02 20:53 -0700
          Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-03 21:45 -0400
            Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-11-04 05:50 -0300
              Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-11-04 10:39 -0700
              Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-04 17:38 -0400
                Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-11-04 18:47 -0300
            Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-09 10:11 -0700
              Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-09 20:24 -0500
                Re: back to .Net? lesser of two evils? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-09 23:42 -0700

csiph-web