Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #4416

Re: tools for programming applets

From	markspace <-@.>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject	Re: tools for programming applets
Date	2011-05-22 05:58 -0700
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<irb1aj$5qq$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(1 earlier) <ir6sfe$8sg$1@dont-email.me> <ir7023$2l0$1@news.albasani.net> <d9f939a9-fddf-45df-9935-3bef2b11ed4f@r27g2000prr.googlegroups.com> <ir8qq6$d27$1@dont-email.me> <c35b8314-9e08-4b69-87fb-71b448bd5773@s41g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

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On 5/22/2011 5:18 AM, horos22 wrote:

> I understand that this is a security risk - if used in production
> systems. But as a development tool, it's invaluable.

I'd like to turn that around on you and ask you what development 
environments you've used that didn't require you to build a test harness 
before, during and after software development?

I don't think I've ever worked in one that did, to any reasonable or 
useful degree.  Not planning ahead for the test harness is, and I'm not 
being mean here but simply being frank, the mark of a very inexperienced 
software developer.

> Consider protocol development. When I develop a ssh client, or mysql
> client, or iscsi client, I don't need to make a new server instance or
> somehow have to duplicate the server environment.

Seriously: I need to make a new server for testing, for each and every 
one of these.  How do you get by with out it?

> The tests are
> *client* driven. I change the client, and as long as the protocol
> works, I can make whatever changes I want behind the scenes without
> touching *anything* except the source code on the client.

What do you use to simulate the connection to the server when testing 
your changes to the client?

> Suppose you had 10 developers working on an applet. What are they
> supposed to do? Duplicate the parent environment 10 separate times?

Yes, although this is a good time to put one person in charge of the 
engineering test harness and propagate it out to all engineers.  Also, 
planning and coordination are required so that one engineer doesn't 
duplicate work of other engineers, and that additions to the test 
harness are useful and understood by all other engineers.

Useful tools here are revision control that can do the grunt work of 
propagating changes out of a central repository.

> What if the central environment changes? Do you then need to propogate
> those changes to all 10 daughter environments? what if two people want
> to merge changes or then test their changes our versus production
> data?

See revisions control above.

> Do they need then to impact production by having their applet
> hosted in the production world?

No, that's why you clone the production environment to a test harness.

> This makes no sense. I can't believe there isn't something out there
> to do this. Unix has a permissions system and its invaluable - you
> open up the permissions on things to do development, get stuff done,
> and then close down the permissions when you ship.

I've you're talking about changing production systems in-place just by 
giving yourself elevated permissions ... that's just crazy.  Only the 
simplest changes should be made like this, like installing software 
that's already developed.

Sorry, but again it simply appears to me that you don't have a lot of 
experience with software development.  Take some advice: you got bit the 
first time because you didn't know.  Next time, figure into your 
planning the need to develop a rigorous test environment.  In general, 
it adds about 2x effort to the software development (so total time is 3x).

> There's gotta be a
> way to overcome the extreme development penalty inherent in cloning
> environments here;

When you find it let us know.

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Thread

tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-20 14:43 -0700
  Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-21 09:57 +1200
    Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-20 18:27 -0400
    Re: tools for programming applets "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> - 2011-05-21 08:56 +0800
    Re: tools for programming applets Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-05-20 21:28 -0400
      Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-22 11:11 +1200
    Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-20 18:31 -0700
    Re: tools for programming applets "Nasser M. Abbasi" <nma@12000.org> - 2011-05-21 12:15 -0700
      Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-22 11:15 +1200
      Re: tools for programming applets Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-05-22 14:35 +0100
        Re: tools for programming applets Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2011-05-22 08:12 -0700
          Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-23 12:26 +1200
            Re: tools for programming applets Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-05-22 20:59 -0400
              Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-22 22:01 -0400
              Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-23 14:17 +1200
                Re: tools for programming applets Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-05-22 23:34 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-23 18:44 +1200
                Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-23 09:13 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-05-23 10:37 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-24 20:15 +1200
                Re: tools for programming applets Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-05-24 07:04 -0300
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-27 14:14 +1200
                Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-24 08:10 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets Stanimir Stamenkov <s7an10@netscape.net> - 2011-05-24 16:09 +0300
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-26 11:35 +1200
                Re: tools for programming applets Stanimir Stamenkov <s7an10@netscape.net> - 2011-05-27 00:13 +0300
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-27 18:50 +1200
                Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-27 09:55 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-05-27 11:31 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-28 14:35 +1200
                Re: tools for programming applets Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2011-05-28 12:17 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets Alessio Stalla <alessiostalla@gmail.com> - 2011-05-30 03:26 -0700
  Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-20 18:29 -0400
  Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-20 16:11 -0700
    Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-20 20:12 -0400
      Re: tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-21 09:10 -0700
        Re: tools for programming applets Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-05-21 12:55 -0400
          Re: tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-22 05:18 -0700
            Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-22 08:37 -0400
            Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-22 05:58 -0700
              Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-23 12:34 +1200
                Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-22 18:11 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-22 22:06 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-22 20:26 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-05-22 21:31 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-23 14:14 +1200
              Re: tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 08:31 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-23 12:08 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-27 14:13 +1200
            Re: tools for programming applets Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-05-22 17:39 -0400
        Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-22 15:38 +1200
          Re: tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-22 05:24 -0700
            Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-22 08:41 -0400
            Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-22 05:43 -0700
              Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-22 08:53 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-22 06:15 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 08:38 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-23 12:17 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets Alessio Stalla <alessiostalla@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 05:22 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-24 08:38 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets Alessio Stalla <alessiostalla@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 06:33 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-25 12:06 +1200
                Re: tools for programming applets Alessio Stalla <alessiostalla@gmail.com> - 2011-05-26 05:54 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-27 00:57 +1200
                Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-26 09:04 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets Alessio Stalla <alessiostalla@gmail.com> - 2011-05-26 06:12 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-26 09:28 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2011-05-26 14:47 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-05-26 13:51 +0000
                Re: tools for programming applets Alessio Stalla <alessiostalla@gmail.com> - 2011-05-26 07:38 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-05-26 15:23 +0000
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-27 14:10 +1200
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-27 14:11 +1200
                Re: tools for programming applets Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-05-27 14:47 +0000
                Re: tools for programming applets Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2011-05-24 10:07 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-23 11:27 -0700
            Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-23 12:23 +1200
              Re: tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 08:50 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-24 14:45 +1200
                Re: tools for programming applets Andrew Thompson <andrewthommo@gmail.com> - 2011-05-25 03:46 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-27 14:12 +1200
  Re: tools for programming applets Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-05-21 09:31 -0700
  Re: tools for programming applets "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> - 2011-05-22 08:05 +0800
    Re: tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-22 05:30 -0700
      Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-22 06:05 -0700
  Re: tools for programming applets Silvio <silvio@moc.com> - 2011-05-24 12:30 +0200
    Re: tools for programming applets Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-05-26 14:29 -0400
  Re: tools for programming applets Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-05-26 16:37 +0000

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