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Re: tools for programming applets

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On 24 Mag, 14:38, Lew <no...@lewscanon.com> wrote:
> Alessio Stalla wrote:
> > Guys, sorry, but you're completely nuts. Once more I understand why
> > Java has got the reputation of being bloated. We should remember that
> > Java is not necessarily targeted only at big corporations and multi-
> > million projects! The OP asked how to do a certain thing. Telling him
> > how a Fortune 500 company should do it is not going to help him.
> > Besides, I don't think even a Fortune 500 company should clone the
> > whole production server just to test one *applet*!
>
> Huh?  "Fortune 500 company"?  Where's your head, dude?  It takes twenty
> minutes and about 50c worth of disk space to clone the server.  I do it all
> the time at home in my practice work.  That's one individual person, not even
> a company, let alone a Fortune 500 company.  Get real.

Well, of course I was exaggerating, but still, how long it takes
depends on the server, doesn't it? What if in the OP's case the server
is backed by a 1TB database? Even copying just the bits he needs for
the test requires identifying those bits, and writing SQL scripts to
selectively copy them. In general, it requires detailed knowledge
about the server, and - I repeat - that's overkill just to test one
applet.

> > To answer directly to the OP question: there are a few ways you can
> > test your own modified applet against your production server.
> > 1) you can run the applet as a standalone application: either coding
> > (e.g. a JFrame to contain it) or using something like Oracle's
> > AppletViewer. This is feasible only if the applet does not interact
> > with the surrounding page.
>
> Suggested upthread, but only partially useful as not all applet behaviors can
> be tested this way.

True. The OP will decide if the behaviors he can test this way are
those that interest him or not.

> > 2) signed applets can bypass security restrictions. So you can run
>
> On the localhost, yes. It doesn't change the restrictions on which server they
> can communicate with.
>
> The tutorial explains this:
>
> "An applet can communicate with server applications that run on the same host
> as the applet."
> <http://download.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/deployment/applet/server.html>
>
> "Signed applets operate outside the security sandbox and have extensive
> capabilities to access the client."
> <http://download.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/deployment/applet/security...>

Not true. You can explicitly grant AllPermissions to your applet,
thereby effectively disabling security altogether. Granted, it's a
stupid thing to do most of the time, but not in the OP's case. See,
e.g., <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/608387/can-signed-applets-
connect-with-a-different-host-from-which-they-originate>.

> > your (signed) applet on a page loaded from localhost and still connect
> > to the remote server. Or, if you *really* need the applet to run on
> > the production page itself, you can probably use something like
> > Greasemonkey to patch (your client-local version of) the page to
> > include the applet. Needless to say, the latter option could be a
> > violation of the site's terms of use, and it's unnecessarily
> > cumbersome, so avoid it unless it's the only option left.
>
> The applet still has to communicate with the server from which is was loaded,
> and no other.
>
> > To everyone else: applets *are* client-side. Really, I can't imagine
> > why you think otherwise. Yes, they are downloaded from a server; so
>
> They are a special component that talks to a special application server, not a
> client of the web server, as explained upthread.

A special component *that runs on the client* and that *can* talk to a
special application server, but also to a HTTP server, or to no server
at all. How is this different from Flash? Or even JavaScript, except
the latter does not require a plugin?

>
> > what? Most software nowadays is downloaded from somewhere the first
> > time. But they run on the client, and only talk to the server via
> > remoting, RPC, SOAP or whatever else. Or do you really believe that
> > e.g. Flash is server-side?
>
> > Sorry for being a little aggressive, but I can't really understand why
> > there are ~50 posts sponsoring the big costly solution and ~0
> > suggesting the practical one.
>
> Because the solution is neither big, nor costly, and is, in fact, much LESS
> expensive than testing on the production box.

How can you possibly know!? The OP said nothing about the production
box! It might as well be a cluster of ten high-end machines, as far as
we know!

> Risk has a cost, duh.  Talk
> about how inexpensive development and testing on the production server are
> when you've brought it to its knees and the client is out of business for a
> day while you try to undo the damage done by your insane irresponsibility.

You're grossly exaggerating. I don't get why you insist on doing it.

> Why do you guys latch on to this "big, expensive" rhetoric as if there were
> any merit to it whatsoever?  It's been pointed out before that that is false
> reasoning.  What is this, repeat the Big Lie (without evidence or supporting
> logic) long enough and this intelligent group of software engineers are
> somehow suddenly going to believe it?

From my POV, these lines apply more to you and markspace than to the
OP and me.

Peace,
Alessio

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tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-20 14:43 -0700
  Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-21 09:57 +1200
    Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-20 18:27 -0400
    Re: tools for programming applets "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> - 2011-05-21 08:56 +0800
    Re: tools for programming applets Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-05-20 21:28 -0400
      Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-22 11:11 +1200
    Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-20 18:31 -0700
    Re: tools for programming applets "Nasser M. Abbasi" <nma@12000.org> - 2011-05-21 12:15 -0700
      Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-22 11:15 +1200
      Re: tools for programming applets Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-05-22 14:35 +0100
        Re: tools for programming applets Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2011-05-22 08:12 -0700
          Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-23 12:26 +1200
            Re: tools for programming applets Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-05-22 20:59 -0400
              Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-22 22:01 -0400
              Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-23 14:17 +1200
                Re: tools for programming applets Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-05-22 23:34 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-23 18:44 +1200
                Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-23 09:13 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-05-23 10:37 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-24 20:15 +1200
                Re: tools for programming applets Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-05-24 07:04 -0300
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-27 14:14 +1200
                Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-24 08:10 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets Stanimir Stamenkov <s7an10@netscape.net> - 2011-05-24 16:09 +0300
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-26 11:35 +1200
                Re: tools for programming applets Stanimir Stamenkov <s7an10@netscape.net> - 2011-05-27 00:13 +0300
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-27 18:50 +1200
                Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-27 09:55 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-05-27 11:31 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-28 14:35 +1200
                Re: tools for programming applets Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2011-05-28 12:17 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets Alessio Stalla <alessiostalla@gmail.com> - 2011-05-30 03:26 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-06-03 08:19 -0400
  Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-20 18:29 -0400
  Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-20 16:11 -0700
    Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-20 20:12 -0400
      Re: tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-21 09:10 -0700
        Re: tools for programming applets Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-05-21 12:55 -0400
          Re: tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-22 05:18 -0700
            Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-22 08:37 -0400
            Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-22 05:58 -0700
              Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-23 12:34 +1200
                Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-22 18:11 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-22 22:06 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-22 20:26 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-05-22 21:31 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-23 14:14 +1200
              Re: tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 08:31 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-23 12:08 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-27 14:13 +1200
            Re: tools for programming applets Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-05-22 17:39 -0400
        Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-22 15:38 +1200
          Re: tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-22 05:24 -0700
            Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-22 08:41 -0400
            Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-22 05:43 -0700
              Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-22 08:53 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-22 06:15 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 08:38 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-23 12:17 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets Alessio Stalla <alessiostalla@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 05:22 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-24 08:38 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets Alessio Stalla <alessiostalla@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 06:33 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-25 12:06 +1200
                Re: tools for programming applets Alessio Stalla <alessiostalla@gmail.com> - 2011-05-26 05:54 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-27 00:57 +1200
                Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-26 09:04 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets Alessio Stalla <alessiostalla@gmail.com> - 2011-05-26 06:12 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-26 09:28 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2011-05-26 14:47 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-05-26 13:51 +0000
                Re: tools for programming applets Alessio Stalla <alessiostalla@gmail.com> - 2011-05-26 07:38 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-05-26 15:23 +0000
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-27 14:10 +1200
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-27 14:11 +1200
                Re: tools for programming applets Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-05-27 14:47 +0000
                Re: tools for programming applets Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2011-05-24 10:07 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-23 11:27 -0700
            Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-23 12:23 +1200
              Re: tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 08:50 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-24 14:45 +1200
                Re: tools for programming applets Andrew Thompson <andrewthommo@gmail.com> - 2011-05-25 03:46 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-27 14:12 +1200
  Re: tools for programming applets Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-05-21 09:31 -0700
  Re: tools for programming applets "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> - 2011-05-22 08:05 +0800
    Re: tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-22 05:30 -0700
      Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-22 06:05 -0700
  Re: tools for programming applets Silvio <silvio@moc.com> - 2011-05-24 12:30 +0200
    Re: tools for programming applets Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-05-26 14:29 -0400
  Re: tools for programming applets Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-05-26 16:37 +0000

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