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Re: Apache JDBC utils

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On 12-04-30 11:27 PM, markspace wrote:
> On 4/30/2012 6:03 PM, Lew wrote:
>>
>> That's funny. You say, "No ORM", then immediately describe the ORM
>> library you're using.
> ...
>> How is the one you're using not ORM?
> 
> 
> Well, I'll point out the main landing page for the project specifically
> says that dbutils is not an ORM.
> 
> "DbUtils is not:
> 
>     An Object/Relational bridge - there are plenty of good O/R tools
> already. DbUtils is for developers looking to use JDBC without all the
> mundane pieces."
> 
> <http://commons.apache.org/dbutils/>
> 
> If the authors of the projects say it's not ORM, I'll choose to believe
> them.

To an extent I'm happy to go with what authors say also. More precisely
DBUtils *is* an ORM - just look at the available ResultSetHandler
implementations like BeanListHandler - but it sure isn't an ORM like
Hibernate JPA or EclipseLink are.

I prefer to differentiate between basic OR mappers like DBUtils that do
low-level first-tier stuff, and full-blown JPA implementations. They are
all ORMs but there are massive differences in capability.

>> The idiom that won for me was non-monolithic JPA (as opposed to the
>> monolithic idiom I've seen in most shops and was the root of their
>> complaints about JPA).
> 
> 
> Could you describe what you mean by "non-monolithic" vs "monolithic?"  I
> don't think I've heard those terms before and I'd be interested to see
> what you are referring too.

I am curious myself. :-)

> As for "I've done this exercise myself, repeatedly" yeah I seem to be
> going down the same road.  Building small prototypes to see how the
> result actually functions.  In general I think doing is the best way to
> learn, so I don't mind doing some extra work in order to get some learnin'.
> 
>> It is very light weight, for how I use the term "light weight".
>>
>> How do you mean the term, precisely?
> 
> I think I mean relatively speaking.  Something is lighter weight in
> comparison to certain alternates.  Lighter weight in terms of options,
> configuration required or configuration options, lighter weight in terms
> of number features needed to learn, lighter weight in terms of API calls
> needed to be conversant with before one can be productive.

I tend to agree. For example, DBUtils allows one to create a set of
domain classes that can be rich (see other threads :-)) so long as they
are Java Beans, and they are unaware of DBUtils. It's extremely simple
to populate one or a list of these beans with ResultSet data.

But as far as I know there is no DBUtils transactions support. There is
certainly no object management. This makes it pretty lightweight to me.

With JPA you can go easy on the annotations, using ORM XML, and
therefore also have domain classes that are JPA unaware, but the
distinction remains that in JPA you had to configure the mappings
somewhere, but in DBUtils the mapping remains conceptual. Less artifacts
with DBUtils, seriously less capability, no object management - I know
what's lighter-weight in this picture.

>> I prefer EclipseLink and OpenJPA, myself. They go so far as to
>> abstract away even that pseudo-SQL, for the common case. You write
>> some annotations and Bob's your uncle.
> 
> I'm somewhat conversant with JPA 2.0.  I'm just looking at alternatives
> for a comparison.  What, if any, advantages do other APIs provide?  So
> far my personal jury is still out.  Although I can see a customer for
> example specify specifying something other than JPA for their own
> reasons, and it might not (as in very probably not) be my place to
> second-guess their business decision.  That I think would be the main
> reason, imo, to not use a full JPA solution.
> 
For simple cases and/or relatively inexperienced programmers I actually
prefer that JPA be used. For the large majority of complex cases I
believe that JPA also is the choice. There is only s small percentage of
complex OR mapping situations where I think an experienced programmer
can make a case for simple mapping tools.

AHS
-- 
A fly was very close to being called a "land," cause that's what they do
half the time.
-- Mitch Hedberg

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Apache JDBC utils markspace <-@.> - 2012-04-30 14:55 -0700
  Re: Apache JDBC utils Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-04-30 20:56 -0300
    Re: Apache JDBC utils markspace <-@.> - 2012-04-30 17:50 -0700
  Re: Apache JDBC utils Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-04-30 18:03 -0700
    Re: Apache JDBC utils markspace <-@.> - 2012-04-30 19:27 -0700
      Re: Apache JDBC utils Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-05-01 10:29 -0300
        Re: Apache JDBC utils markspace <-@.> - 2012-05-01 08:57 -0700
          Re: Apache JDBC utils Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-05-02 11:16 -0700
            Re: Apache JDBC utils markspace <-@.> - 2012-05-03 07:51 -0700
    Re: Apache JDBC utils Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-01 19:22 -0400
  Re: Apache JDBC utils Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-05-01 10:32 -0700
    Re: Apache JDBC utils markspace <-@.> - 2012-05-01 11:22 -0700
      Re: Apache JDBC utils Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-05-01 15:26 -0700
        Re: Apache JDBC utils Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-05-01 19:44 -0300
  Re: Apache JDBC utils Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-01 19:26 -0400
    Re: Apache JDBC utils Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-05-01 21:14 -0300
      Re: Apache JDBC utils Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-05-01 22:22 -0500
        Re: Apache JDBC utils Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-03 13:52 -0400
      Re: Apache JDBC utils Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-03 13:51 -0400
        Re: Apache JDBC utils Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-05-03 17:11 -0300
          Re: Apache JDBC utils Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-03 16:58 -0400
            Re: Apache JDBC utils Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-05-03 18:25 -0300
              Re: Apache JDBC utils Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-03 19:55 -0400
    Re: Apache JDBC utils Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-05-01 22:08 -0500
      Re: Apache JDBC utils Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-03 13:55 -0400
        Re: Apache JDBC utils Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-05-03 13:44 -0500
          Re: Apache JDBC utils Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-03 15:06 -0400
  Re: Apache JDBC utils "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-01 23:37 -0400
    Re: Apache JDBC utils Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-05-02 07:37 -0300
      Re: Apache JDBC utils "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-02 18:51 -0400
  Re: Apache JDBC utils Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-05-02 12:22 +0200
    Re: Apache JDBC utils markspace <-@.> - 2012-05-02 08:29 -0700
      Re: Apache JDBC utils Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-05-02 22:02 +0200
        Re: Apache JDBC utils Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-05-02 14:22 -0700
          Re: Apache JDBC utils Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-05-02 18:53 -0300
          Re: Apache JDBC utils Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-05-03 00:03 +0200
            Re: Apache JDBC utils Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-05-03 00:14 +0200
            Re: Apache JDBC utils Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-05-03 00:27 +0200
              Re: Apache JDBC utils Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-03 14:03 -0400
            Re: Apache JDBC utils Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-02 18:58 -0400
            Re: Apache JDBC utils Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-05-02 16:18 -0700
          Re: Apache JDBC utils Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-05-02 15:25 -0700
            Re: Apache JDBC utils Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-05-03 00:59 +0200
              Re: Apache JDBC utils Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-03 14:05 -0400
            Re: Apache JDBC utils Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-05-02 16:24 -0700
              Re: Apache JDBC utils Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-05-02 16:35 -0700
              Re: Apache JDBC utils Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-05-03 01:46 +0200
              Re: Apache JDBC utils Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-05-03 01:49 +0200

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