Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #14207

Re: Apache JDBC utils

From	Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com>
Subject	Re: Apache JDBC utils
Newsgroups	comp.lang.java.programmer
References	<jnn1pc$33c$1@dont-email.me> <4fa07113$0$291$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> <6LCdndn-__GmOD3SnZ2dnUVZ8kadnZ2d@giganews.com> <4fa2c69a$0$292$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID	<OZidnerdl7mBTz_SnZ2dnUVZ8kudnZ2d@giganews.com> (permalink)
Date	2012-05-03 13:44 -0500

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Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
> On 5/1/2012 11:08 PM, Leif Roar Moldskred wrote:
>>
>> Simpler project dependencies, direct control over the SQL, less
>> "architectural weigth", "nærhet til materialet".
> 
> True.
> 
> But how much does this really impact things in the real world?

I'd say it's not an insignificant impact. For instance, I know I have
spent a surprising amount of time wrangling with dependency management
in Java projects, and I believe every project should carefully
consider how much architectural weight to pull in. 

Direct control over the SQL is one of those issues that you usually
won't need at all, but when you do need it, you _really_ need it [1].

As for "nærhet til materialet" (for those watching from home, an
English translation would be "[staying] close to the subject matter"),
I've personally come to think of that as a cornerstone of good,
readable code. Not an overarching concern, but one of the key concepts
you should always keey in the back of your mind as you write code and
balance and trade-off against appropriately.

> True.
> 
> But I can not see anything being better than JPA in relation
> to having a stable API where changes to the ORM does not require
> changes in the ones own code base.

Possibly, but some other ORMs, like Hibernate, have been about as
stable as clay.

[1] The real problem with ORMs here is perhaps not so much that they
prevent you from getting down to the metal with the database, but that
you end up with hardly any developers who has the raw database skills
to do it.

I think one can make an argument that to use an ORM efficently,
_someone_ on the team needs to have a good grounding in fundamental
database theory, but new developers don't get that grounding from
developing with an ORM.

-- 
Leif Roar Moldskred

Thread

Apache JDBC utils markspace <-@.> - 2012-04-30 14:55 -0700
  Re: Apache JDBC utils Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-04-30 20:56 -0300
    Re: Apache JDBC utils markspace <-@.> - 2012-04-30 17:50 -0700
  Re: Apache JDBC utils Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-04-30 18:03 -0700
    Re: Apache JDBC utils markspace <-@.> - 2012-04-30 19:27 -0700
      Re: Apache JDBC utils Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-05-01 10:29 -0300
        Re: Apache JDBC utils markspace <-@.> - 2012-05-01 08:57 -0700
          Re: Apache JDBC utils Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-05-02 11:16 -0700
            Re: Apache JDBC utils markspace <-@.> - 2012-05-03 07:51 -0700
    Re: Apache JDBC utils Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-01 19:22 -0400
  Re: Apache JDBC utils Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-05-01 10:32 -0700
    Re: Apache JDBC utils markspace <-@.> - 2012-05-01 11:22 -0700
      Re: Apache JDBC utils Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-05-01 15:26 -0700
        Re: Apache JDBC utils Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-05-01 19:44 -0300
  Re: Apache JDBC utils Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-01 19:26 -0400
    Re: Apache JDBC utils Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-05-01 21:14 -0300
      Re: Apache JDBC utils Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-05-01 22:22 -0500
        Re: Apache JDBC utils Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-03 13:52 -0400
      Re: Apache JDBC utils Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-03 13:51 -0400
        Re: Apache JDBC utils Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-05-03 17:11 -0300
          Re: Apache JDBC utils Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-03 16:58 -0400
            Re: Apache JDBC utils Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-05-03 18:25 -0300
              Re: Apache JDBC utils Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-03 19:55 -0400
    Re: Apache JDBC utils Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-05-01 22:08 -0500
      Re: Apache JDBC utils Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-03 13:55 -0400
        Re: Apache JDBC utils Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-05-03 13:44 -0500
          Re: Apache JDBC utils Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-03 15:06 -0400
  Re: Apache JDBC utils "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-01 23:37 -0400
    Re: Apache JDBC utils Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-05-02 07:37 -0300
      Re: Apache JDBC utils "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-02 18:51 -0400
  Re: Apache JDBC utils Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-05-02 12:22 +0200
    Re: Apache JDBC utils markspace <-@.> - 2012-05-02 08:29 -0700
      Re: Apache JDBC utils Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-05-02 22:02 +0200
        Re: Apache JDBC utils Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-05-02 14:22 -0700
          Re: Apache JDBC utils Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-05-02 18:53 -0300
          Re: Apache JDBC utils Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-05-03 00:03 +0200
            Re: Apache JDBC utils Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-05-03 00:14 +0200
            Re: Apache JDBC utils Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-05-03 00:27 +0200
              Re: Apache JDBC utils Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-03 14:03 -0400
            Re: Apache JDBC utils Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-02 18:58 -0400
            Re: Apache JDBC utils Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-05-02 16:18 -0700
          Re: Apache JDBC utils Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-05-02 15:25 -0700
            Re: Apache JDBC utils Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-05-03 00:59 +0200
              Re: Apache JDBC utils Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-03 14:05 -0400
            Re: Apache JDBC utils Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-05-02 16:24 -0700
              Re: Apache JDBC utils Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-05-02 16:35 -0700
              Re: Apache JDBC utils Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-05-03 01:46 +0200
              Re: Apache JDBC utils Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-05-03 01:49 +0200

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