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Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java)

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On 4/20/2012 12:43 PM, Lew wrote:
> Gene Wirchenko wrote:
>> Arved Sandstrom wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> I'm with Arne on this one. I expect programmers using a language
>>> to at least thoroughly understand the datatypes for a language.
>>> Granted, leading zeros are a pretty crappy prefix choice, which
>>> is why a lot of languages use something else, but a diligent
>>> _learning_programmer should have discovered this crappy choice
>>> when reading about literals.
>>
>> Odd.  You are agreeing with ME.
>
> Then you and Arne are in agreement.
>
> Leading zeroes to represent octal values weren't added to the C
> language family "without notice" at all, but with abundant notice.
> Arne is simply saying that one must learn the programming language if
> one wishes to use it. This includes reading the documentation,
> wherein such notice is offered.
>
> Computer programming uses all sorts of terms and notations in ways
> different from ordinary usage ("method", "call", "object", "integer",
> "%", "@"). It is incumbent upon one learning a programming language
> to learn the specific semantics and syntax, and complaints that it is
> unlike other languages (programming or otherwise) are feckless.
>

Remember this thread is about teaching kids to program. Shouldn't a
certain amount of fecklessness be expected and planned for?

Patricia

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Teaching kids to program (in Java) Mark <i@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> - 2012-04-12 09:12 +0100
  Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-04-12 08:28 +0000
  Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-04-12 04:36 -0700
    Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> - 2012-04-12 09:47 -0400
    Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-04-12 07:42 -0700
      Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-04-12 19:41 -0700
      Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-04-13 21:22 -0300
    Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Mark <i@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> - 2012-04-16 13:53 +0100
  Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> - 2012-04-12 13:09 -0400
    Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> - 2012-04-12 13:28 -0400
    Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-12 19:16 -0400
      Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> - 2012-04-12 20:36 -0400
        Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-04-12 19:55 -0700
      Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-04-13 05:03 -0500
        Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-04-13 10:14 +0000
          Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-04-13 09:27 -0500
            Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-13 20:42 -0400
              Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-04-14 02:08 +0000
                Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-05 20:13 -0400
                Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-05-06 12:06 +0000
                Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-06 11:38 -0400
        Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-04-13 14:06 +0100
          Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-04-13 09:07 -0500
            Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-04-13 09:53 -0500
            Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2012-04-13 10:55 -0500
          Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-04-13 08:39 -0700
            Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-13 20:47 -0400
              Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-04-15 20:05 -0700
                Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-17 22:11 -0400
                Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-04-17 19:57 -0700
                Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-18 19:20 -0400
                Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-04-18 18:03 -0700
                Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-04-19 20:15 -0300
                Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-04-19 20:08 -0700
                Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-04-20 12:43 -0700
                Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-04-20 12:58 -0700
                Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-04-20 15:20 -0500
                Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-04-20 13:30 -0700
                Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-05 20:23 -0400
                Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-05-06 12:22 +0000
                Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-06 11:36 -0400
                Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-05-06 17:10 +0000
                Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-05-07 09:43 -0700
                Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-05-07 18:17 +0000
                Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-05 20:18 -0400
          Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-13 20:44 -0400
        Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-13 20:38 -0400
        Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Gunter Herrmann <notformail0106@earthlink.net> - 2012-04-16 15:32 -0400
    Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-04-12 19:44 -0700
  Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-04-13 17:59 -0700

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