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Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java)

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On 4/20/2012 4:30 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 12:43:42 -0700 (PDT), Lew<lewbloch@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Gene Wirchenko wrote:
>>> Arved Sandstrom wrote:
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>> I'm with Arne on this one. I expect programmers using a language to at
>>>> least thoroughly understand the datatypes for a language. Granted,
>>>> leading zeros are a pretty crappy prefix choice, which is why a lot of
>>>> languages use something else, but a diligent _learning_programmer should
>>>> have discovered this crappy choice when reading about literals.
>>>
>>>        Odd.  You are agreeing with ME.
>>
>> Then you and Arne are in agreement.
>>
>> Leading zeroes to represent octal values weren't added to the C language family
>   "without notice" at all, but with abundant notice. Arne is simply
> saying that one must learn the programming language if one wishes to
> use it. This includes reading the documentation, wherein such notice
> is offered.
>
>       Not abundant notice if it has been missed by so many.

If you search programming fora for problems relating to:
- max int values
- integer division
- FP inaccuracy
- octal
then I think you will see that octal is not a common problem compared
to other language features.

>> Computer programming uses all sorts of terms and notations in ways different
>   from ordinary usage ("method", "call", "object", "integer", "%",
> "@"). It is incumbent upon one learning a programming language to
> learn the specific semantics and syntax, and complaints that it is
> unlike other languages (programming or otherwise) are feckless.
>
>       Quite true.  Learning those terms is part of the basics of
> programming.  How a particular language does something is not.
>
>       If I were to create a programming language, it would be
> reasonable for me to expect that people would know what "method",
> "call", etc. mean.  It would not be so for something idiosyncratic to
> my language.

That seems to be a rather arbitrary division.

If you look at languages weighted after current use, then I think you
will see that octal constants are used more than call keyword.

Arne

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Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-05 20:23 -0400
  Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-05-06 12:22 +0000
    Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-06 11:36 -0400
    Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-05-06 17:10 +0000
  Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-05-07 09:43 -0700
    Re: Teaching kids to program (in Java) Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-05-07 18:17 +0000

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