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Re: Java Programming Best Practices

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On 7/22/2012 5:25 PM, Lew wrote:
> On 07/22/2012 01:43 PM, Philip Brown wrote:
>> On Sunday, July 22, 2012 1:07:17 PM UTC-7, Lew wrote:
>>>> Philip Brown wrote:
>>>
>>>> Please don't spread hate propaganda.
>>>
>>>> When any site makes statements, in its top paragraph no less, such as
>>>
>>>> "XYZ is the #1 source of evil on the planet today." against a group
>>>> of people collectively, that is pretty much the definition of
>>>> hatred, prejudice, and bigotry.
>>>
>>> If "XYZ" is a racial, ethnic or gender distinction
>>> you're right. If "XYZ" is
>>> someone or group of someones excoriated for their choices, not their
>>> inherent
>>> being, you're wrong.
>>>
>>
>> So you're saying it's wrong to be bigoted against people because of
>> ethnicity or gender, but its perfectly fine for any other reason.
>
> I did not say that.
>
> You misquoted me.
>
> I said nothing about whether it's right to be bigoted. Instead, thank
> you for disingenuously misstating my point, I said that it is not
> bigotry to castigate someone for their behavior.

And the relevancy is?

The political parts of Roedy's web site seems at be very
negative towards entire groups without evaluating any
individual behavior.

> You are engaging in begging the question and straw-man arguments.
>
> And not talking about
>> And words like " I would be interested in hearing your ideas about
>> would could be done to help eliminate XYZ", and comparing that group
>> of people, to a disease, is just fine.
>> Interesting.
>>
>> Personally, my view is that if bigotry is wrong, then it's wrong for
>> any and all reasons.
>> (In the same way that if someone is for "free speech", they should
>> support speech they dont agree with... if someone is against bigotry,
>> they should be uniformly against it, even when directed against groups
>> they dont personally like)
>
> Fine, if we were discussing someone's bigotry, which we aren't.
>
> We're discussing Roedy's political statements, which are not bigoted.

The before mentioned parts of his web site does seem to fit the
definition of bigotry pretty well.

A very one sided and rather extreme point of view with a tendency
to ignore facts on certain topics.

>> PS:
>>> You fail to distinguish hate speech, which targets people based on their
>>> inherent characteristics, from criticism, which targets people based
>>> on their
>>> actions.
>>
>>
>> hate speech is hate speech, no matter whether it's directed at
>> "inherent characteristics", or "I hate everyone whose first name
>> starts with the letter Q"
>
> You are like Humpty Dumpty in _Through the Looking Glass_: "When I use a
> word, it means exactly what I choose it to mean, no more, no less."
>
> But your definitions happen to be wrong.
>
> Hate speech is hate speech, as you so circularly claim, but speech
> excoriating someone's actions is not hate speech.
>
> You don't get to just make up your own definitions.

Given that having a first name that starts with Q is
not an action of that person (unless he changed his
name himself), then I can not see that example
conflict with your definition.

>> But even from a legal standpoint, religion is a protected
>> characteristic, so that site is clearly engaging in hate speech.
>
> Huh? Religion?
>
> And religion is a matter of choice, so one is perfectly free to speak
> against the practices of any relgion, including even atheism.
>
> Otherwise statements like, "That church stole gazillions from gullible
> poor people" would be hate speech, which it isn't, or "That other church
> engages in hate speech" would be hate speech, which it isn't.

But it would be hate speech to say that "Everybody belonging to that
church are thieves".

Arne

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Java Programming Best Practices clusardi2k@aol.com - 2012-07-21 07:19 -0700
  Re: Java Programming Best Practices Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-07-21 10:53 -0400
    Re: Java Programming Best Practices Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-07-21 14:55 -0700
      Re: Java Programming Best Practices Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-07-21 21:59 -0400
        Re: Java Programming Best Practices Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-07-22 16:11 -0700
          Re: Java Programming Best Practices Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-07-22 20:01 -0400
          Re: Java Programming Best Practices Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-07-22 19:49 -0400
    Re: Java Programming Best Practices Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-07-21 23:41 -0700
      Re: Java Programming Best Practices Philip Brown <phil@bolthole.com> - 2012-07-22 12:50 -0700
        Re: Java Programming Best Practices Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-07-22 13:07 -0700
          Re: Java Programming Best Practices Philip Brown <phil@bolthole.com> - 2012-07-22 13:43 -0700
            Re: Java Programming Best Practices Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-07-22 14:25 -0700
              Re: Java Programming Best Practices Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-07-23 00:43 +0200
                Re: Java Programming Best Practices markspace <-@.> - 2012-07-22 17:18 -0700
                Re: Java Programming Best Practices Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2012-07-22 21:11 -0400
                Re: Java Programming Best Practices Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-07-22 20:24 -0400
              Re: Java Programming Best Practices Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-07-22 21:34 -0400
  Re: Java Programming Best Practices Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-07-21 15:45 -0400

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