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Re: Whay IDE am I supposed to use/is the best?

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On 07/04/2012 01:01 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
> On Wed, 04 Jul 2012 12:32:58 -0700, Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org>
> wrote:
>
>> On 7/4/2012 10:47 AM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
>>> On Wed, 04 Jul 2012 10:14:54 -0700, Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/4/2012 10:04 AM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>>         Knowing something of the layer below (or even more) can help one
>>>>> get more out of the system.  If you insist on using black boxes and
>>>>> keeping it that way, then you do not understand the system.
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> I've treated emacs and other tools as black boxes on systems I
>>>> understood at every level down to details of the processor design.
>>>
>>>        If you know the system to that level, it is not a black box.
>>
>> If you define "black box" in such a way that it is not possible to treat
>> something as a black box even if one understands the system, then "If
>> you insist on using black boxes and keeping it that way, then you do not
>> understand the system." is indeed a tautology.
>
>       No.  If you know the inner details, it is going to help in using
> such a system.  You do not just turn off your knowledge.  You will not
> have a black box in that case.
>
>       This is different from black box testing where you can do so.
> (Just base your tests on use cases, not the algorithm.  (Of course, I
> like white box testing, too.))
>
>> I prefer a more functional view of "black box" in which one can treat
>> something as a black box by only considering and using its external
>> features, regardless of deeper understanding.
>
>       I do that, too.

I detect common ground between your viewpoints, with differences in the nuances.

Patricia's point of view relates to trust of a tool or layer.

You can rest on what an IDE does, as far as its functions go. You don't 
question its ability to syntax-color your source beyond the settings screen. 
That's a black-box approach.

Many recommend, however, that you understand what it does generate for source 
code, build scripts, server configuration, and other tasks that one normally 
would script, or perform through an external service-management interface. 
NetBeans Ant scripts are an infamous example, as are Eclipse .classpath files. 
Both of these work in IDE-osyncratic ways that tend to play poorly with 
industry standards.

Ditto the GUI generators. Many laud the Matisse generator built in to 
NetBeans, but its code style is its own. What if you gotcherself a corner case?

At this point you lose trust in the IDE at least somewhat. While you have no 
doubt that the symbols you type into a dot-java file will persist to disk 
safely, you might question its choices for variable scope or 'toString()' 
implementation.

The common ground, then, is to blackbox what you trust and whitebox or greybox 
what you doubt, to varying degrees. "Trust but verify", in the language of 
arms agreements.

-- 
Lew
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Friz.jpg

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Whay IDE am I supposed to use/is the best? ericmiranda7@gmail.com - 2012-06-30 23:32 -0700
  Re: Whay IDE am I supposed to use/is the best? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-07-01 03:53 -0700
  Re: Whay IDE am I supposed to use/is the best? Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-07-01 07:37 -0700
  Re: Whay IDE am I supposed to use/is the best? Patrick May <patrick@softwarematters.org> - 2012-07-01 14:20 -0400
    Re: Whay IDE am I supposed to use/is the best? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-07-01 14:44 -0700
      Re: Whay IDE am I supposed to use/is the best? Patrick May <patrick@softwarematters.org> - 2012-07-03 20:48 -0400
        Re: Whay IDE am I supposed to use/is the best? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-07-03 19:55 -0700
          Re: Whay IDE am I supposed to use/is the best? Nigel Wade <nmw@ion.le.ac.uk> - 2012-07-04 09:26 +0100
            Re: Whay IDE am I supposed to use/is the best? Patrick May <patrick@softwarematters.org> - 2012-07-05 13:36 -0400
              Re: Whay IDE am I supposed to use/is the best? Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-07-05 13:25 -0700
              Re: Whay IDE am I supposed to use/is the best? Joseph Parkton <jparkton@gmail.com> - 2012-07-19 21:54 -0700
          Re: Whay IDE am I supposed to use/is the best? Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-07-04 10:04 -0700
            Re: Whay IDE am I supposed to use/is the best? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-07-04 10:14 -0700
              Re: Whay IDE am I supposed to use/is the best? Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-07-04 10:47 -0700
                Re: Whay IDE am I supposed to use/is the best? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-07-04 12:32 -0700
                Re: Whay IDE am I supposed to use/is the best? Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-07-04 13:01 -0700
                Re: Whay IDE am I supposed to use/is the best? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-07-04 16:03 -0700
                Re: Whay IDE am I supposed to use/is the best? Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-07-04 17:38 -0700
                Re: Whay IDE am I supposed to use/is the best? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-07-06 08:29 -0700
  Re: Whay IDE am I supposed to use/is the best? Timothy Madden <terminatorul@gmail.com> - 2012-08-21 16:21 +0300
    Re: Whay IDE am I supposed to use/is the best? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-08-21 11:47 -0700

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