Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.forth > #25099

Re: Disassembly of arrayForth

Show all headers | View raw

hughaguilar96@yahoo.com wrote:

> On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 10:00:16 AM UTC-7, Mark Wills wrote:
>> Thanks. When read from a users viewpoint it does make more sense.
> 
> The GPL is essentially communism --- the users own the rights --- a
> worker's labor is owned by the community (in practice, the state) rather
> than by himself.

In the GPL case, this "(in practice, the state)" is not true.  So if the GPL 
is communism, it's not the perverted Stalinist/Maoist one, where the state 
enslaves the people.

> The GPL was invented primarily to prevent the scenario in which a
> programmer writes some software and puts it in the public domain out of
> altruism, and then somebody else comes along and copyrights it such that
> the copyright prevents anybody else (including the original author) from
> having any right to the software.

Yes.  So this protects the altruism, and prevent people from stealing 
altruistic work.  If that's communism, I'm communist.

> In China, there are a lot of entrepreneurs working on the side from their
> regular jobs; they typically manufacture something in their home and sell
> it to their neighbors (given the severe shortages of goods in China, even
> simple stuff like brooms and cooking equipment can be manufactured and
> sold). Entrepreneurship is highly illegal however.

We don't write 1970, we write 2013.  About half the Chinese people who 
aren't just farmers on their own rice paddies are employed by someone, and 
the other half work as "entrepreneurs".  Well, they usually have a small 
shop or so.  It is highly legal, and the amount of regulation is small.  
That's why so many people have planned to work for a few years for a big 
company, save the money, and return to their village, starting their own 
business - which they did.  Often, when it is not very difficult to make 
things, the work is actually organized by small entrepreneurs rather than 
large companies.  Most blue jeans are sewn by companies with 20 or less 
employees.  It's not difficult to make a blue jeans.  Though I'm sure most 
Chinese will wonder why they have to make blue jeans for people in the US 
where a whole Chinese family (including grandma) can fit into.

And there is no shortage of goods, either.  China has not actually the same 
living standard as the US, but the difference is much less than in 1970.  I 
think you should really get out of your cave; but in this case, too many US 
citizens just think the world outside the US doesn't really exist, or, like 
you, they have severely outdated informations.

> As a libertarian I am opposed to communism. OTOH, I don't consider the GPL
> to be bad because I see it as volunteerism.

Ok, so you now contradict yourself.  But this view is certainly closer to 
the truth.

> Nobody is holding a gun to
> anybody's head and forcing them to write software and put it under the
> GPL. By comparison, in China if you refuse to work at whatever job has
> been assigned to you, men with guns will show up at your house and take
> you away to be "reeducated".

Actually no.  China has significantly less prisoners (nearly half) in total 
than the US, with 5 times more population.  The last remaining gulag country 
is the one you are living in.  Most inmates are people who don't much more 
than refusing to work and smoking a little marihuana or so.  A very 
significant portion of the inmates in US prisons is there, because they just 
didn't pay their depts.

> Right now, Bill Gates is Batista. After Microsoft goes bankrupt (and
> Microsoft will eventually go bankrupt because their low quality), GPL will
> become the norm. At that time, we have to be careful that we don't make
> the mistake of the Cubans and begin forcing people to GPL their software.
> This could easily happen. Anybody who tries to sell software would get
> arrested on the charge that he had used GPL software during the writing of
> his own software, and hence he is a thief deserving of jail.

It is quite likely that a copyleft regime will replace the current copyright 
regime - when something is perverted and abused too much, it is likely to 
flip over to the other extreme.  However, you wouldn't be arrested.  
Copyright allows you to claim some exclusive rights; in a copyleft world, 
this allowance would not exist, rather your customers would have rights - 
the right to get the source code.  Like customers of physical goods have a 
warranty right, you, as vendor, can't deny them this right.  If you don't 
comply, you would go out of business, but not into jail.  Ok, this assumes 
the gulag prison state in the US would be stopped at the same time; 
otherwise, you are probably right.  But this is unlikely; the revolution 
against the current totalitarian US regime will not go into that direction.  
You might go into prism after the revolution if you were a bankster, because 
that's really big stealing.

And BTW: you can legally sell GPL software.  RedHat makes a billion dollar 
per year, essentially selling GPL software.  Oh, they sell subscriptions to 
their maintenance program.  But that's selling GPL software; it is possible, 
it is just a little different from Microsoft's way.  It's not entirely fair, 
as RedHat doesn't do the big part of maintaining all these packages; they do 
the little part of maintaining them within their distribution.  It's mostly 
work done by others, and RedHat doesn't share their profits.  But they are 
not required to.  Other people make cheaper distributions, and for servers, 
I much prefer Debian - that's the volunteer distribion.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

Back to comp.lang.forth | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Dennis Ruffer <daruffer@gmail.com> - 2013-06-20 21:47 -0700
  Re: Disassembly of arrayForth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-06-21 14:34 +0000
    Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Luca Saiu <positron@gnu.org> - 2013-06-25 12:01 +0200
      Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-25 03:32 -0700
        Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Luca Saiu <positron@gnu.org> - 2013-06-25 12:37 +0200
          Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-25 05:01 -0700
            Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-25 15:16 +0200
              Re: Disassembly of arrayForth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-25 14:06 +0000
              Re: Disassembly of arrayForth "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-06-26 15:58 +1000
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-26 03:25 -0500
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-27 15:56 +0200
            Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Luca Saiu <positron@gnu.org> - 2013-06-25 17:05 +0200
              Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Luca Saiu <positron@gnu.org> - 2013-06-25 17:07 +0200
              Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-25 10:00 -0700
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Luca Saiu <positron@gnu.org> - 2013-06-25 21:08 +0200
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-08-10 11:43 -0700
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-10 21:17 +0100
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-10 23:23 +0200
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-11 02:13 -0500
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-11 20:40 +0200
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-11 17:14 -0500
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-12 13:52 +0000
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-08-11 23:58 -0700
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-12 15:27 +0200
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-12 06:41 -0700
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-08-13 00:36 -0700
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-13 23:44 +0200
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-13 23:40 +0100
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-08-13 21:58 -0700
        Re: Disassembly of arrayForth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-25 12:59 +0000
      Re: Disassembly of arrayForth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-06-28 01:54 +0000
        Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-28 00:37 -0700
          Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-28 02:53 -0500
            Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-28 01:34 -0700
              Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-28 04:27 -0500
        Re: Disassembly of arrayForth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-28 15:16 +0000
          Re: Disassembly of arrayForth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-28 15:43 +0000
            Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Dennis Ruffer <daruffer@gmail.com> - 2013-08-08 20:12 -0700
              Re: Disassembly of arrayForth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-08-09 17:19 +0000
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Dennis Ruffer <daruffer@gmail.com> - 2013-08-09 18:19 -0700
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-10 21:45 +0100
    Re: Disassembly of arrayForth hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-08-10 11:52 -0700
      Re: Disassembly of arrayForth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-08-10 19:10 +0000
      Re: Disassembly of arrayForth "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-10 21:34 +0100
        Re: Disassembly of arrayForth hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-08-11 23:17 -0700
          Re: Disassembly of arrayForth "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-12 12:15 +0100
          Re: Disassembly of arrayForth "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-12 16:34 +0100

csiph-web