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Re: Disassembly of arrayForth

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On Saturday, August 10, 2013 2:23:25 PM UTC-7, Bernd Paysan wrote:
> hughaguilar96@yahoo.com wrote:
> > In China, there are a lot of entrepreneurs working on the side from their
> > regular jobs; they typically manufacture something in their home and sell
> > it to their neighbors (given the severe shortages of goods in China, even
> > simple stuff like brooms and cooking equipment can be manufactured and
> > sold). Entrepreneurship is highly illegal however.
> 
> We don't write 1970, we write 2013.  About half the Chinese people who 
> aren't just farmers on their own rice paddies are employed by someone, and 
> the other half work as "entrepreneurs".  Well, they usually have a small 
> shop or so.  It is highly legal, and the amount of regulation is small.  
> That's why so many people have planned to work for a few years for a big 
> company, save the money, and return to their village, starting their own 
> business - which they did.  Often, when it is not very difficult to make 
> things, the work is actually organized by small entrepreneurs rather than 
> large companies.  Most blue jeans are sewn by companies with 20 or less 
> employees.  It's not difficult to make a blue jeans.  

I'm well aware that most Chinese manufacturing is done by small companies. There are a lot of people just making stuff in a home workshop. This is why quality varies so much --- because those guys get their raw materials from wherever they can week to week, including recycling from the garbage dumps.

This is not entrepreneurship however. It is still highly illegal to manufacture anything for sale to the general public (your neighbors). All of those small companies that you are describing are selling to the state. It is only legal to make blue jeans if they are for sale to the state, which sells them to America (mostly through WalMart). It is illegal to make blue jeans if they are for sale to your neighbors --- even if the people in your neighborhood are going around half naked, you can't sell them blue jeans that you make, because that is illegal. The Beijing government is really focused on acquiring dollars, but they don't care about the quality of living of their own citizens --- they care about the long run, in which America collapses and China becomes the superpower of the world --- but they don't care about the short term, in which their citizens live in poverty.

> And there is no shortage of goods, either.  China has not actually the same 
> living standard as the US, but the difference is much less than in 1970.  I 
> think you should really get out of your cave; but in this case, too many US 
> citizens just think the world outside the US doesn't really exist, or, like 
> you, they have severely outdated informations.

My information on China, in the sense of talking to a Chinese expatriot, does come from about 1991. Since then however, I have read several books on the subject. There have been changes --- but the idea that China has embraced capitalism is absurd --- the Chinese are almost another species, and they aren't going to change their nature.

The Chinese people on average put 40% of their income into savings. That is as compared to just slightly over 0% for Americans. The reason why they save so much, is because prices are very high in China. Buying consumer goods (blue jeans, etc.) is a big waste of money --- the people save their money rather than throw it away. 

Here in America, because there are practically no tariffs on imports, we can go to WalMart and buy a lot of Chinese-made stuff for very low prices, and we typically spend all of our income and save nothing. The result is that our manufacturing is going out of business because they can't compete on price. Eventually Beijing will pull the rug out from under us, and then we will be in big trouble --- the Chinese products will be available only at high cost, and our own products won't be available at all because our factories are shut down.

We do the same thing to the third-world though, especially in regard to food. Our standard strategy is to dump low-cost or even free food on third-world countries under the guise of "humanitarianism." After the farmers in those countries have gone out of business because they can't compete in price against free food, we pull the rug out from under them by hitting them with high prices for food. At that time, there is a famine because nobody can afford our prices, and the big American corporations swoop in and buy up the land. Then they use the land for growing export crops to be shipped to America --- they don't grow crops that can be used to feed the people of that country --- so the famine continues, despite the fact that the country is mostly good farmland that could easily provide enough food for the people.

> > As a libertarian I am opposed to communism. OTOH, I don't consider the GPL
> > to be bad because I see it as volunteerism.
> 
> Ok, so you now contradict yourself.  But this view is certainly closer to 
> the truth.

I'm not contradicting myself. I clearly said that I think volunteerism is a good thing, but am opposed to forced labor. 

Your response to my post would make a lot more sense if you read through my post first, before you began responding to it --- just firing off opinions as they pop into your head as you read the post, results in a lot of nonsense.

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Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Dennis Ruffer <daruffer@gmail.com> - 2013-06-20 21:47 -0700
  Re: Disassembly of arrayForth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-06-21 14:34 +0000
    Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Luca Saiu <positron@gnu.org> - 2013-06-25 12:01 +0200
      Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-25 03:32 -0700
        Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Luca Saiu <positron@gnu.org> - 2013-06-25 12:37 +0200
          Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-25 05:01 -0700
            Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-25 15:16 +0200
              Re: Disassembly of arrayForth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-25 14:06 +0000
              Re: Disassembly of arrayForth "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-06-26 15:58 +1000
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-26 03:25 -0500
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-27 15:56 +0200
            Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Luca Saiu <positron@gnu.org> - 2013-06-25 17:05 +0200
              Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Luca Saiu <positron@gnu.org> - 2013-06-25 17:07 +0200
              Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-25 10:00 -0700
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Luca Saiu <positron@gnu.org> - 2013-06-25 21:08 +0200
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-08-10 11:43 -0700
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-10 21:17 +0100
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-10 23:23 +0200
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-11 02:13 -0500
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-11 20:40 +0200
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-11 17:14 -0500
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-12 13:52 +0000
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-08-11 23:58 -0700
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-12 15:27 +0200
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-12 06:41 -0700
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-08-13 00:36 -0700
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-13 23:44 +0200
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-13 23:40 +0100
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-08-13 21:58 -0700
        Re: Disassembly of arrayForth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-25 12:59 +0000
      Re: Disassembly of arrayForth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-06-28 01:54 +0000
        Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-28 00:37 -0700
          Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-28 02:53 -0500
            Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-28 01:34 -0700
              Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-28 04:27 -0500
        Re: Disassembly of arrayForth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-28 15:16 +0000
          Re: Disassembly of arrayForth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-28 15:43 +0000
            Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Dennis Ruffer <daruffer@gmail.com> - 2013-08-08 20:12 -0700
              Re: Disassembly of arrayForth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-08-09 17:19 +0000
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth Dennis Ruffer <daruffer@gmail.com> - 2013-08-09 18:19 -0700
                Re: Disassembly of arrayForth "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-10 21:45 +0100
    Re: Disassembly of arrayForth hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-08-10 11:52 -0700
      Re: Disassembly of arrayForth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-08-10 19:10 +0000
      Re: Disassembly of arrayForth "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-10 21:34 +0100
        Re: Disassembly of arrayForth hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-08-11 23:17 -0700
          Re: Disassembly of arrayForth "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-12 12:15 +0100
          Re: Disassembly of arrayForth "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-12 16:34 +0100

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