Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine?

From	Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine?
Date	2013-07-15 11:44 +0300
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<ks0cdf$sdv$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(10 earlier) <8598ae9f-ddfc-4cae-bd09-347c3d81263e@googlegroups.com> <de586824-4f34-4133-9620-86d8e7548808@googlegroups.com> <b3bf3d72-407e-40f4-b167-f2a9ace049f9@googlegroups.com> <krvp08$gmo$1@dont-email.me> <c48e6b49-a8c6-4ca8-98e2-89252a6a2120@googlegroups.com>

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On 07/15/2013 08:17 AM, hughaguilar96@yahoo.com wrote:

> This is all just wild speculation stated as fact. 

No, it's backed up by empirical evidence from my almost 30yrs of
programming experience.


> The sort isn't necessarily going to be faster with an array of pointers to records, rather than an array of records. You still have to access the records for the compare, and you also have to access the array of pointers, so there is more memory being accessed when you have an array of pointers to records than an array of records, especially if the records are fairly small  (if the records are 2 cells in size, then it is 150% more) --- this could result in a slower sort, especially when the size of the data is about 32K, which is the size of the data-cache on the x86 --- if you end up using more than 32K, when your data is actually less than 32K, then you get unnecessary cache thrashing. Also, if your EXCHANGE function is written in assembly-language rather than Forth (which it would be if it were part of the standard, as I suggested), then there is very little difference in speed between exchanging pointers and exchanging small records. 

Clearly, if you have toy records the size of pointers then you don't
need to sort pointers to them.  Changing goalposts doesn't make the new
game different, though.  If you have real-world records (a contact list,
for instance) then swapping the records instead of pointers to them will
cost.  Try it and measure, instead of philosophizing.

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Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-06-30 09:27 -0700
  Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-06-30 13:23 -0700
  Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-06-30 21:48 +0100
    Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-06-30 16:53 -0700
      Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-07-01 04:34 -0700
        Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-03 18:41 -0700
          Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-07-04 02:58 -0700
            Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-04 21:30 -0700
              Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-07-06 00:18 +0100
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-07-06 13:45 +0200
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-06 07:49 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-06 13:38 +0000
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-06 10:06 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-06 23:08 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-07 06:24 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-07-07 23:47 +0200
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-07 09:59 +0000
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-07 06:52 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-07 12:18 +0000
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2013-07-08 00:06 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-08 09:50 +0000
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2013-07-08 03:14 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-08 09:53 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-09 14:25 +0000
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-07-09 23:39 +0200
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-07-09 18:03 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-07-10 23:05 +0200
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-10 03:21 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-10 10:29 +0000
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-10 05:44 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-07-10 04:07 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-10 06:06 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-10 14:21 +0000
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-10 04:45 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-07-10 03:13 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-10 05:09 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-10 12:16 +0000
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-10 10:38 +0000
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-10 06:45 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-10 13:56 +0000
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-10 10:54 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-07-10 13:57 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-10 07:15 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-10 13:52 +0000
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-10 15:00 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-07-10 16:13 +0200
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-10 17:07 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-11 10:53 +0000
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-11 10:40 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-11 15:17 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-11 16:54 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-12 03:07 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-07-07 00:43 +0200
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-07 00:21 +0000
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-06 20:32 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-07 06:38 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-07 07:05 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-07 13:00 +0000
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-07 09:47 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-07-07 21:22 +0100
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-07 19:25 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-07 21:58 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-08 02:27 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-08 21:18 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-09 04:20 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-10 10:30 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-10 15:13 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-10 13:57 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-10 16:57 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-07-10 13:00 -1000
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-10 22:19 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-11 10:23 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-07-11 01:12 +0200
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-11 00:33 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-07-11 11:48 +0200
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-07-11 03:08 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-11 05:00 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-11 10:17 +0000
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-11 06:53 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-11 15:21 +0000
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-11 10:37 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-11 17:07 +0000
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-11 15:19 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-11 17:33 +0000
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-11 18:18 +0000
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-11 16:46 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-07-12 03:48 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-12 10:55 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-12 19:29 +0000
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-15 09:50 +0000
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-07-12 13:22 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-13 20:05 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-14 11:34 +0000
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-07-14 09:18 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-14 16:05 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2013-07-15 06:12 +0300
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-14 22:17 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2013-07-15 11:44 +0300
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-07-15 09:42 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-16 18:03 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-07-17 00:54 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-07-14 10:09 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-14 15:35 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-11 17:08 +0000
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-11 15:30 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-11 09:34 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Michael Morris <morrimichael@gmail.com> - 2013-07-15 23:09 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-16 17:46 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-17 03:14 -0500
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-07-17 21:47 -0400
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-07-11 04:06 +0100
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-06 20:18 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-07-07 16:48 +0100
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-07 09:13 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-07 09:13 -0700
                Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-07-07 21:24 +0100
          Re: Simple Sort - the smallest sorting routine? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-04 14:41 +0000

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