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Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance?

From Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance?
Date 2012-01-19 01:39 +0100
Organization 1&1 Internet AG
Message-ID <jf7ooa$m9$1@online.de> (permalink)
References (5 earlier) <bbf6a043-40ed-4dc5-9b5f-9383798e5dd2@i25g2000vbt.googlegroups.com> <7xboq3lct9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <1b326644-7c60-480c-8fdf-681a23b1111c@34g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> <7x7h0qomxi.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <bc039b77-257d-43ac-a933-8ee2206f4ceb@m2g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>

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rickman wrote:
> I'm not sure the chip is really about the "high computational
> parallelism" in the way most people think.  The CPUs are all memory
> starved.

Yes, it's really not well thought through.  Computational intensive 
tasks usually also are memory intensive.  You need data to crunch?  It's 
probably a lot of data then.

Look at the competition.  There's, on the one side: FPGAs.  The Cyclone 
V 5CEA4 is a relatively low cost device, and has 144 18x19 multipliers 
(all single cycle, the GA144 multiplier are 1x18 multipliers, and AFAIK 
need two cycles per bit, because the carry propagation has to be taken 
into account - granted, the cycles are smaller, but propbably only by a 
factor of 3), 30 kB of on-chip memory (the GA144 has 18kB, and these 64 
words per CPU are shared between program and data), 400MHz DDR2-RAM IOs 
to really have fast access to other memory, etc.  Handling a GB Ethernet 
device in such a Cyclone 5 is not all that complicated - you need your 
external phy device.

The other competition are GPGPUs.  They have such an abundance of 
computation resources that they are rated in teraflops now (single 
precision).

Chuck doesn't like the ultra-complex design software for current chips.  
He thinks his simplistic approach yields faster chips.  I'm not 
convinced.  I've done similar CPUs (b16) with similar technology, and 
ended up at comparable clock speeds, and I don't need to spend years 
tuning the thing for a particular technology - I can jump to the latest 
available or my sweet spot for affordability; even if I'm 30% slower 
than Chuck for a given technology, I can be 10 times faster by using the 
most recent technology, and pack 100 times as many cores on one die.  If 
that would actually be a good idea.

IMHO, Chuck is something like a one-man research institute.  He has 
wonderful ideas, but it's research work, not actual product development.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? gavino <gavcomedy@gmail.com> - 2012-01-10 02:28 -0800
  Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-01-10 08:24 -1000
  Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-10 10:49 -0800
    Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-01-10 20:48 +0100
      Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-11 11:01 -0800
    Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? gavino <gavcomedy@gmail.com> - 2012-02-02 15:49 -0800
  Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-10 14:45 -0800
    Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Arnold Doray <invalid@invalid.com> - 2012-01-11 02:31 +0000
      Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-10 20:35 -0800
        Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Arnold Doray <invalid@invalid.com> - 2012-01-11 07:21 +0000
          Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2012-01-11 07:23 -0500
            Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Arnold Doray <invalid@invalid.com> - 2012-01-11 14:21 +0000
            Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-11 09:02 -0800
          Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-11 08:55 -0800
      Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2012-01-11 07:22 -0500
      Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-01-15 11:05 -0800
        Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Arnold Doray <invalid@invalid.com> - 2012-01-16 03:56 +0000
          Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-01-16 08:01 -0800
            Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Arnold Doray <invalid@invalid.com> - 2012-01-16 16:23 +0000
              Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-01-16 20:53 +0000
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-01-16 15:12 -0800
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-01-17 11:45 +0000
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-01-17 04:50 -0800
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-01-18 01:00 +0100
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-01-17 19:57 -0800
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-01-18 16:20 +0000
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-01-18 08:11 -0800
              Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-01-16 12:52 -0800
            Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-01-16 10:30 -0800
              Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-01-16 12:39 -0800
                And the relavant question is ? ????? - was once [Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance?] Richard Owlett <rowlett@pcnetinc.com> - 2012-01-16 15:43 -0600
                Re: And the relavant question is ? ????? - was once [Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance?] "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-01-16 23:07 +0100
                Re: And the relavant question is ? ????? - was once [Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance?] rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-01-16 15:14 -0800
                Re: And the relavant question is ? ????? - was once [Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance?] Richard Owlett <rowlett@pcnetinc.com> - 2012-01-16 23:06 -0600
                Re: And the relavant question is ? ????? - was once [Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance?] Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-01-17 19:35 +0000
                Re: And the relavant question is ? ????? - was once [Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance?] Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-01-17 11:53 +0000
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-01-16 22:36 -0800
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-01-18 13:01 -0800
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-01-19 01:39 +0100
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? forther <forther@gmail.com> - 2012-01-18 17:05 -0800
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-01-19 22:45 +0100
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? forther <forther@gmail.com> - 2012-01-19 14:08 -0800
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-01-20 00:15 +0100
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? forther <forther@gmail.com> - 2012-01-18 17:11 -0800
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Arnold Doray <invalid@invalid.com> - 2012-01-19 14:49 +0000
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-01-19 11:30 -0800
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Arnold Doray <invalid@invalid.com> - 2012-01-20 03:19 +0000
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-01-21 23:40 +0100
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Arnold Doray <invalid@invalid.com> - 2012-01-22 04:59 +0000
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-02-07 16:35 +0100
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-02-07 14:48 -0800
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-02-07 17:07 -0800
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-02-07 18:18 -0800
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? vandys@vsta.org - 2012-02-08 04:08 +0000
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-02-10 00:12 +0100
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-02-09 14:59 -1000
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Arnold Doray <invalid@invalid.com> - 2012-02-10 10:23 +0000
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-02-09 19:58 -0800
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Arnold Doray <invalid@invalid.com> - 2012-02-10 11:16 +0000
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-02-10 17:27 +0100
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Arnold Doray <invalid@invalid.com> - 2012-02-10 11:02 +0000
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-02-10 17:54 +0100
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-01-19 11:01 -0800
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-01-19 14:26 -0800
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-01-24 06:29 -0800
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-01-19 23:27 +0100
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? gavino <gavcomedy@gmail.com> - 2012-01-23 07:50 -0800
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-01-24 07:08 -0800
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Brad <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2012-01-25 19:11 -0800
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-01-26 14:14 -0800
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-27 03:47 -0800
                Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-01-30 12:53 -0800
  Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? Brad <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2012-01-10 17:04 -0800
    Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2012-01-11 07:24 -0500
    Re: Would green arrays produce something with a web browser? like a cheap appliance? gavino <gavcomedy@gmail.com> - 2012-02-02 15:48 -0800

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