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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #6941

Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network)

Date 2011-10-29 19:57 +0200
From David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups comp.arch.fpga, comp.lang.forth, comp.arch.embedded, comp.dsp
Subject Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network)
References (3 earlier) <l1c*qKNQt@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> <N-udnTzgbJO2xTfTnZ2dnUVZ8nGdnZ2d@lyse.net> <c7b1aaca-ee93-47d2-9df5-5549f47e8398@v31g2000yqv.googlegroups.com> <GuqdnUpjkoruTjbTnZ2dnUVZ8midnZ2d@lyse.net> <4eac16c9.325269432@www.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID <dsydnabg4ZERozHTnZ2dnUVZ8sSdnZ2d@lyse.net> (permalink)

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

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On 29/10/11 17:10, Eric Jacobsen wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 12:20:34 +0200, David Brown
> <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no>  wrote:
>
>> On 28/10/11 21:15, Rick wrote:
>>> On Oct 28, 12:17 am, David Brown<da...@westcontrol.removethisbit.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 28/10/2011 01:07, Thomas Womack wrote:
>>>
>>> Personally I think patents for things like push up bras should run for
>>> 30 years to encourage development in that area.<sic>
>>
>> Patents /don't/ encourage development.  That's the problem.  A 30-year
>> wide-ranging patent like that stops development - no one can invent a
>> "push-up-and-together" bra because of that patent.
>
> This creates an incentive to find another way to do it.   If the new
> way is innovative, it can be patented and provide a benefit to those
> who sorted out the new way.   I don't see how patents discourage
> innovation or development.
>

It conceivably creates an incentive to find a totally different way to 
do it.  But that requires the inventor to find a completely way new way 
to solve the problem, /and/ to be able and willing to file his own 
patent - which costs a lot of time and money, /and/ to be willing to 
fight off claims of infringement from the original patent owner, /and/ 
to be willing to fight future infringements in court.  It's a huge 
investment in time and money, and is more about being a lawyer and a 
cut-throat businessman than about being an inventor.  You can only avoid 
it by cross-licensing deals and other arrangements with existing patent 
holders.

Successful invention and innovation today is about steering clear of 
everything patent-related and hoping for the best, or being part of a 
huge company with an army of lawyers, and accepting that you will spend 
a much larger budget on legal fees, lawyers, and licensing deals than 
you will on actually developing new products or researching new ideas.


Nowhere in this is there a place for someone coming up with a good idea 
to improve an existing patent.  Nowhere is there a place for the "little 
guy", no matter how brilliant his idea is.  It is all about the big 
companies being able to maintain the status quo, and the lawyers getting 
their fees.



I am not sure that patents need to be totally abandoned (except for 
software patents, which should never have been allowed in the first 
place).  But there needs to be a complete re-think to get back to 
something that actually encourages innovation and invention, gives 
/appropriate/ reward to people doing research and coming up with good 
ideas, works for individuals and small companies as well as large ones, 
allows for improvement on existing ideas, and minimises the bureaucracy, 
legal costs, and wasted time.

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Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2011-10-24 12:59 -0700
  Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Mark Wills <forthfreak@forthfiles.net> - 2011-10-24 13:40 -0700
    Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Paul Gotch <paulg@at-cantab-dot.net> - 2011-10-24 23:20 +0100
      Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) fatalist <simfidude@gmail.com> - 2011-10-25 06:38 -0700
        Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) ashtonrsmiller <rmiller@storm.ca> - 2011-10-25 07:47 -0700
        Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Brad <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2011-10-25 08:25 -0700
          Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2011-10-25 20:21 -0400
            Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Brad <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2011-10-26 07:54 -0700
        Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Paul Gotch <paulg@at-cantab-dot.net> - 2011-10-26 13:02 +0100
          Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) fatalist <simfidude@gmail.com> - 2011-10-26 05:36 -0700
            Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Paul Gotch <paulg@at-cantab-dot.net> - 2011-10-26 13:57 +0100
            Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2011-10-26 15:33 +0200
          Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) eric.jacobsen@ieee.org (Eric Jacobsen) - 2011-10-26 15:15 +0000
            Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Thomas Womack <twomack@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2011-10-26 17:16 +0100
              Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) fatalist <simfidude@gmail.com> - 2011-10-26 09:21 -0700
              Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) eric.jacobsen@ieee.org (Eric Jacobsen) - 2011-10-26 21:42 +0000
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) "langwadt@fonz.dk" <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2011-10-28 10:21 -0700
      Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Rick <richardcortese@gmail.com> - 2011-10-25 07:55 -0700
        Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2011-10-25 21:25 -0700
      Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2011-11-05 05:33 -0700
  Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) ashtonrsmiller <rmiller@storm.ca> - 2011-10-24 20:14 -0700
  Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) "rupertlssmith@googlemail.com" <rupertlssmith@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-26 07:13 -0700
    Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Rick <richardcortese@gmail.com> - 2011-10-26 11:27 -0700
      Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) spope33@speedymail.org (Steve Pope) - 2011-10-27 04:21 +0000
    Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2011-10-27 13:54 -0700
      Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Thomas Womack <twomack@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2011-10-28 00:07 +0100
        Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2011-10-28 09:17 +0200
          Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Rick <richardcortese@gmail.com> - 2011-10-28 12:15 -0700
            Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2011-10-29 12:20 +0200
              Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) eric.jacobsen@ieee.org (Eric Jacobsen) - 2011-10-29 15:10 +0000
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2011-10-29 19:57 +0200
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) eric.jacobsen@ieee.org (Eric Jacobsen) - 2011-10-29 21:08 +0000
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2011-10-30 00:35 -0700
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) clvrmnky <spamtrap@clevermonkey.org> - 2011-10-31 00:51 +0000
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2011-10-29 21:37 +0200
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2011-10-29 22:14 +0100
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2011-11-04 00:13 +0100
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Al Clark <aclark@danvillesignal.com> - 2011-10-31 05:44 +0000
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Vladimir Vassilevsky <nospam@nowhere.com> - 2011-10-31 01:24 -0500
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2011-10-31 08:46 +0100
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2011-10-31 00:37 -0700
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 09:43 -0700
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) eric.jacobsen@ieee.org (Eric Jacobsen) - 2011-10-31 17:07 +0000
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2011-11-04 00:13 +0100
              Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 09:27 -0700
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Al Clark <aclark@danvillesignal.com> - 2011-10-31 17:47 +0000
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) eric.jacobsen@ieee.org (Eric Jacobsen) - 2011-10-31 21:33 +0000
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Rick <richardcortese@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 20:36 -0700
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2011-11-01 04:49 +0000
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Al Clark <aclark@danvillesignal.com> - 2011-11-01 04:05 +0000
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Al Clark <aclark@danvillesignal.com> - 2011-10-31 18:20 +0000
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 12:17 -0700
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2011-10-31 19:18 +0000
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2011-10-31 21:56 +0100
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Al Clark <aclark@danvillesignal.com> - 2011-11-01 03:54 +0000
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) eric.jacobsen@ieee.org (Eric Jacobsen) - 2011-11-01 05:38 +0000
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2011-11-01 09:54 -0700
        Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Brad <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2011-10-28 09:46 -0700
          Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Thomas Womack <twomack@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2011-10-28 17:58 +0100
          Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2011-10-28 12:07 -0700
            Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2011-10-29 09:49 +0000
              Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2011-10-29 08:17 -0700
            Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Brad <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 10:28 -0700
              Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 12:15 -0700
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2011-11-02 23:34 +0100
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-11-03 06:32 -0500
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE ConsultaQ          Network) Kulin Remailer <remailer@reece.net.au> - 2011-11-03 14:35 +0000
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE ConsultaQ        ? Network) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-11-03 10:44 -0500
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE ConsultaQ        ? Network) Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> - 2011-11-04 19:55 +0000
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE ConsultaQ        ? Network) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2011-11-04 18:09 -0500
                Patents [Was: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE ConsultaQ        ? Network) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-11-05 04:13 -0500
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE ConsultaQ ? Network) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2011-11-05 16:28 -0700
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE ConsultaQ ? Network) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2011-11-11 01:02 +0100
          Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2011-10-28 22:15 +0200
        Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2011-10-28 12:03 -0700
          Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2011-10-28 22:50 +0200
            Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2011-10-29 08:23 -0700
  Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 12:18 -0700
  Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2011-11-05 16:46 -0700
    Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) eric.jacobsen@ieee.org (Eric Jacobsen) - 2011-11-06 17:28 +0000
      Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2011-11-07 11:08 -0800
        Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) fatalist <simfidude@gmail.com> - 2011-11-07 11:34 -0800
          Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2011-11-07 12:13 -0800
            Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) eric.jacobsen@ieee.org (Eric Jacobsen) - 2011-11-07 20:30 +0000
              Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2011-11-07 13:04 -0800
        Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) eric.jacobsen@ieee.org (Eric Jacobsen) - 2011-11-07 20:18 +0000
          Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Vladimir Vassilevsky <nospam@nowhere.com> - 2011-11-07 14:41 -0600
            Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2011-11-07 13:11 -0800
              Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Vladimir Vassilevsky <nospam@nowhere.com> - 2011-11-07 17:04 -0600
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) eric.jacobsen@ieee.org (Eric Jacobsen) - 2011-11-08 01:33 +0000
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) Vladimir Vassilevsky <nospam@nowhere.com> - 2011-11-07 21:10 -0600
                Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) eric.jacobsen@ieee.org (Eric Jacobsen) - 2011-11-08 03:18 +0000
          Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2011-11-07 13:07 -0800
    Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) eric.jacobsen@ieee.org (Eric Jacobsen) - 2011-11-23 17:27 +0000
      Re: Patent Reform Town Hall Meeting (Balt/Washington Area IEEE Consultants Network) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2011-11-23 15:09 -0800

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