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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #22052
| Date | 2013-04-29 13:55 -1000 |
|---|---|
| From | "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> |
| Organization | FORTH, Inc. |
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.forth |
| Subject | Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. |
| References | (4 earlier) <i8WdnTKGo8GaAeDMnZ2dnUVZ_rydnZ2d@supernews.com> <7x61z6dt5d.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <AsydnQSMvYzfsuPMnZ2dnUVZ_oGdnZ2d@supernews.com> <_IydnS9MuYNaK-PMnZ2dnUVZ_jqdnZ2d@supernews.com> <klmfn2$at2$1@online.de> |
| Message-ID | <V5ednctF4ZPsleLMnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@supernews.com> (permalink) |
On 4/29/13 8:55 AM, Bernd Paysan wrote: > Elizabeth D. Rather wrote: >> This is an >> important point. Forth metacompilation is a difficult process to >> understand completely. It requires the direct manipulation of three >> distinct execution phases and object areas, and is not something that a >> casual user wanted or needed. > > IMHO this is the key issue why JonesForth is popular amongst newbies, while > we don't like it. Newbies have a hard time with cross compilers. A fig- > Forth listing takes them from what they know (assembler) to the unknown > territory step by step, without needing to understand the cross compiler > "magic". They don't understand the assembler magic, either, but they do > understand the assembler semantics. > > In any case, the "assembler magic" is a lot less than the cross compiler > magic. However, the cross compiler is a lot *easier to use*, as you write > your code in a very Forth-like language. > > There's also a lot of code duplication: The cross compiler needs to create > headers and compile control structures and all that stuff, which then is > again defined in the target. It probably would be much better if the > compiler source code could be reused. This really depends on what kind of newbie you're catering to. A person who wants to learn Forth can do so easiest with one of the free eval versions of the professional systems, which tend to have a lot of user aids plus extensive documentation. Once you learn to use Forth from such a system, it's much easier to look at ways of writing your own, if that's what you want to do. For a person who wants to start by writing one from scratch, starting with a familiar HLL (or assembler) is probably the most practical. Once again, there are a lot of books, etc., that explain how the language should work, and what the words are supposed to do, and do it in a recognized way rather than the idiosyncratic functionality of Jonesforth. Neither case really requires a cross-compiler. A cross-compiler is necessary for the person who wants to support a Forth from the ground up on multiple platforms. I think that's a pretty small subset of Forth users. Cheers, Elizabeth -- ================================================== Elizabeth D. Rather (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH FORTH Inc. +1 310.999.6784 5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700 Los Angeles, CA 90045 http://www.forth.com "Forth-based products and Services for real-time applications since 1973." ==================================================
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The most elegant Forth interpreter. albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-04-27 09:13 +0000
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-04-27 22:46 -0700
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-28 03:37 -0500
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-04-28 12:58 +0000
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-28 17:00 -0500
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-04-28 18:26 -0700
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-29 03:28 -0500
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-04-29 01:38 -0700
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-04-29 01:43 -0700
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-29 04:01 -0500
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-10 21:20 -0700
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-11 02:03 -0500
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. David Schultz <abuse@127.0.0.1> - 2013-05-11 11:01 -0500
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. David Schultz <abuse@127.0.0.1> - 2013-05-11 15:53 -0500
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-11 20:59 -0700
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-12 02:40 -0500
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. David Schultz <abuse@127.0.0.1> - 2013-05-12 07:53 -0500
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-04-29 08:07 -1000
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-29 20:55 +0200
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-29 16:28 -0500
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-29 23:35 +0200
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-29 17:28 -0500
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-04-29 23:20 -0700
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-04-29 21:11 -1000
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-30 03:21 -0500
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-04-30 01:57 -0700
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-04-30 09:00 +0000
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-04-30 02:10 -0700
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-04-30 14:34 +0000
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-04-30 17:18 +0200
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-04-30 10:04 -0700
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-30 04:13 -0500
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-30 18:40 +0200
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-30 12:50 -0500
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-03 22:01 -0700
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-30 04:09 -0500
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-06 19:29 -0700
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-04-29 12:35 -1000
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-30 01:50 +0200
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-04-29 13:55 -1000
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-04-30 09:03 +0000
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-04-29 10:32 +0000
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-04-29 08:34 -0700
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-04-29 17:31 -0400
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-29 17:56 -0500
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. lynx <rinkasu@kaze.void.null> - 2013-04-29 22:38 +0000
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-04-29 12:31 +1000
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. Spam@ControlQ.com - 2013-04-29 13:31 -0400
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. jlarsonfour3@gmail.com - 2013-04-29 08:14 -0700
Re: The most elegant Forth interpreter. the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-04-29 10:28 -0700
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