Re: ENVIRONMENT?

From	stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc)
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: ENVIRONMENT?
Message-ID	<4ff4348a.84782861@192.168.0.50> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <d87dab3b-efb6-4e35-9d2d-7850f1ff72f6@a16g2000vby.googlegroups.com> <VvudnVY9-ZOKlGnSnZ2dnUVZ8g6dnZ2d@supernews.com> <1749b256-4b8d-4cf9-8439-b7b5aab4046d@5g2000vbf.googlegroups.com> <KeadnZRVm7nBiWnSnZ2dnUVZ8oadnZ2d@supernews.com> <fcba7e96-e0c4-4d79-8e75-6ccb911eb5d6@5g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
Date	2012-07-04 12:31 +0000

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On Wed, 4 Jul 2012 04:00:56 -0700 (PDT), Mark Wills
<markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>I guess I'm making two arguments:
>
>1) It's a carbuncle
>2) It shouldn't be in CORE.
>
>It's bizarre that words such as :NONAME are in the optional CORE EXT
>wordset, but ENVIRONMENT is considered CORE!

1) Yes, it is a carbuncle but it's there.
2) I agree, make a proposal.

What you really are missing is that it is compliant to supply part of
a system as source code. So supplying ENVIRONMENT? as
  : environment?  ( caddr len -- 0 ) 2drop false ;
is compliant. I realise that documentation is much less fun than
writing code, but it is your choice.

ANS94 was written by people, and people get tired and cranky. Private
conversation among the vendors indicates that users do not like
ENVIRONMENT? in part because there is no portable way to extend the
environment after compiling new facilities. The choice is either to
add some more words (not a popular solution) or to mandate that the
implementation uses a wordlist. Since most systems use a vocabulary
called ENVIRONMENT this is not a big imposition.

I note also that the majority of portable libraries do not use
ENVIRONMENT? at all. Outside compliance testing, it is very rarely
used.

Stephen

-- 
Stephen Pelc, stephenXXX@mpeforth.com
MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time
133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
tel: +44 (0)23 8063 1441, fax: +44 (0)23 8033 9691
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ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-03 05:03 -0700
  Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-03 07:45 -0500
  Re: ENVIRONMENT? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-07-03 15:29 +0000
    Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 01:52 -0700
      Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-04 04:12 -0500
        Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 02:37 -0700
          Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-04 05:01 -0500
            Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 03:54 -0700
              Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-04 06:52 -0500
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 05:21 -0700
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 05:19 -0700
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-04 07:42 -0500
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 06:47 -0700
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-04 09:42 -0500
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 08:06 -0700
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-04 22:05 +0200
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 08:14 -0700
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-07-05 16:48 +0000
            Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 04:00 -0700
              Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-04 06:53 -0500
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 05:20 -0700
              Re: ENVIRONMENT? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-07-04 12:31 +0000
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-04 08:07 -0500
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 07:16 -0700
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-07-04 17:22 +0000
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 07:12 -0700
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-04 09:47 -0500
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 08:14 -0700
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-04 11:53 -0500
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-07-04 17:37 +0000
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-07-04 12:46 -0700
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-04 21:59 +0200
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-05 02:36 -0500
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-07-04 13:31 -0700
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-07-05 02:06 +0000
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-05 02:33 -0500
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-07-05 12:12 +0000
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-05 07:50 -0500
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-07-05 14:15 +0000
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-05 15:31 +0200
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-07-05 14:33 +0000
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-06 00:43 +0200
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-07-06 15:37 +0000
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-05 09:46 -0500
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 12:44 -0700
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 07:08 -0700
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-07-04 17:31 +0000
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-07-05 16:44 +0000
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-07-04 08:30 -1000
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-07-05 02:43 +0000
          Re: ENVIRONMENT? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-07-04 08:16 -1000
      Re: ENVIRONMENT? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-07-04 11:57 -0700
        Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 12:33 -0700
          Re: ENVIRONMENT? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-07-04 13:04 -0700
            Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 13:28 -0700
            Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 13:36 -0700
              Re: ENVIRONMENT? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-07-04 10:49 -1000
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 13:58 -0700
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-07-04 22:07 +0000
                Standards Body Attendance (was Re: ENVIRONMENT?) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-07-05 05:21 -0700
                Re: Standards Body Attendance (was Re: ENVIRONMENT?) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-07-05 15:44 +0000
                Re: Standards Body Attendance (was Re: ENVIRONMENT?) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-07-06 10:35 -0700
              Re: ENVIRONMENT? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2012-07-04 22:50 +0200
              Re: ENVIRONMENT? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-07-04 16:30 -0700
          Re: ENVIRONMENT? Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-07-05 02:33 +0000
      Re: ENVIRONMENT? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-07-06 15:48 +0000
        Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-06 11:47 -0700
          Re: ENVIRONMENT? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-07-06 14:07 -0700
        Re: ENVIRONMENT? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-06 23:55 +0200
  Re: ENVIRONMENT? Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-07-03 18:24 +0000
    Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 01:55 -0700
      Re: ENVIRONMENT? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-07-05 00:19 -0700
    Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 02:29 -0700
      Re: ENVIRONMENT? Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-07-04 15:53 +0000
      Re: ENVIRONMENT? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2012-07-04 18:03 +0200
      Re: ENVIRONMENT? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-07-06 15:42 +0000
        Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-06 11:41 -0700
          Re: ENVIRONMENT? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-07-06 14:14 -0700
          Re: ENVIRONMENT? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-06 23:51 +0200
          Re: ENVIRONMENT? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-07-07 09:24 +0000
  Re: ENVIRONMENT? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-07-03 21:46 -0700
    Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 02:04 -0700
      Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-04 04:30 -0500
      Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 02:32 -0700
      Re: ENVIRONMENT? Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-07-04 16:00 +0000
        Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 08:37 -0700

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