Re: ENVIRONMENT?

From	Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid>
Subject	Re: ENVIRONMENT?
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
References	<f7528036-6314-419c-9e10-4b095531abff@z19g2000vbe.googlegroups.com> <2012Jul3.172921@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <d87dab3b-efb6-4e35-9d2d-7850f1ff72f6@a16g2000vby.googlegroups.com> <VvudnVY9-ZOKlGnSnZ2dnUVZ8g6dnZ2d@supernews.com> <1749b256-4b8d-4cf9-8439-b7b5aab4046d@5g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID	<KeadnZRVm7nBiWnSnZ2dnUVZ8oadnZ2d@supernews.com> (permalink)
Date	2012-07-04 05:01 -0500

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Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On Jul 4, 10:12?am, Andrew Haley <andre...@littlepinkcloud.invalid>
> wrote:
>> Mark Wills <markrobertwi...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> > On Jul 3, 4:29?pm, an...@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
>> > wrote:
>> >> Mark Wills <markrobertwi...@yahoo.co.uk> writes:
>> >> >Why on earth does ENVIRONMENT accept a string? Why couldn't it simply
>> >> >be a numeric value?
>>
>> >> >It's annoying that ENVIRONMENT? is part of ANS Core, yet it's a rather
>> >> >sizeable routine, because of the strings that need to be stored in a
>> >> >lookup table etc. This is a real pain for embedded/memory constrained
>> >> >systems.
>>
>> >> A very simple implementation of ENVIRONMENT?:
>>
>> >> : environment? ( ( c-addr u -- false | i*x true )
>> >> ? 2drop false ;
>>
>> > Which makes a mockery of the ENVIRONMENT? word, which kind of proves
>> > my point.
>>
>> > If something in the standard is just going to be ignored, one has to
>> > ask if it deserves a place in the standard!
>>
>> Eh?  In what sense is it being ignored? ?ENVIRONMENT? gives a system a
>> way to advertise capabilities; if a system implementer doesn't want to
>> advertise any, they can still be compliant.
>>
>> And you're still failing to address the point:
>>
>> "A system need not provide all words in executable form. The
>> implementation may provide definitions, including definitions of words
>> in the Core word set, in source form only."
>>
>> Your complaint that ENVIRONMENT? wastes memory in an embedded system
>> is not valid.
> 
> Of course it's valid. If you have a memory constrained embedded
> system, and you wish you use ENVIRONMENT?, then you need the behemoth
> that ENVIRONMENT? is.

So you need it.  But in what memory-constrained embedded system do you
actually need ENVIRONMENT?  And why don't you implement it with a
wordlist in the obvious way, like everyone else?

Your complaint that ENVIRONMENT? wastes memory in an embedded system
is, still, not valid.

Andrew.

Thread

ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-03 05:03 -0700
  Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-03 07:45 -0500
  Re: ENVIRONMENT? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-07-03 15:29 +0000
    Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 01:52 -0700
      Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-04 04:12 -0500
        Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 02:37 -0700
          Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-04 05:01 -0500
            Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 03:54 -0700
              Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-04 06:52 -0500
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 05:21 -0700
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 05:19 -0700
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-04 07:42 -0500
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 06:47 -0700
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-04 09:42 -0500
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 08:06 -0700
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-04 22:05 +0200
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 08:14 -0700
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-07-05 16:48 +0000
            Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 04:00 -0700
              Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-04 06:53 -0500
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 05:20 -0700
              Re: ENVIRONMENT? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-07-04 12:31 +0000
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-04 08:07 -0500
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 07:16 -0700
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-07-04 17:22 +0000
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 07:12 -0700
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-04 09:47 -0500
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 08:14 -0700
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-04 11:53 -0500
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-07-04 17:37 +0000
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-07-04 12:46 -0700
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-04 21:59 +0200
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-05 02:36 -0500
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-07-04 13:31 -0700
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-07-05 02:06 +0000
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-05 02:33 -0500
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-07-05 12:12 +0000
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-05 07:50 -0500
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-07-05 14:15 +0000
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-05 15:31 +0200
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-07-05 14:33 +0000
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-06 00:43 +0200
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-07-06 15:37 +0000
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-05 09:46 -0500
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 12:44 -0700
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 07:08 -0700
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-07-04 17:31 +0000
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-07-05 16:44 +0000
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-07-04 08:30 -1000
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-07-05 02:43 +0000
          Re: ENVIRONMENT? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-07-04 08:16 -1000
      Re: ENVIRONMENT? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-07-04 11:57 -0700
        Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 12:33 -0700
          Re: ENVIRONMENT? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-07-04 13:04 -0700
            Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 13:28 -0700
            Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 13:36 -0700
              Re: ENVIRONMENT? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-07-04 10:49 -1000
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 13:58 -0700
                Re: ENVIRONMENT? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-07-04 22:07 +0000
                Standards Body Attendance (was Re: ENVIRONMENT?) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-07-05 05:21 -0700
                Re: Standards Body Attendance (was Re: ENVIRONMENT?) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-07-05 15:44 +0000
                Re: Standards Body Attendance (was Re: ENVIRONMENT?) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-07-06 10:35 -0700
              Re: ENVIRONMENT? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2012-07-04 22:50 +0200
              Re: ENVIRONMENT? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-07-04 16:30 -0700
          Re: ENVIRONMENT? Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-07-05 02:33 +0000
      Re: ENVIRONMENT? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-07-06 15:48 +0000
        Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-06 11:47 -0700
          Re: ENVIRONMENT? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-07-06 14:07 -0700
        Re: ENVIRONMENT? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-06 23:55 +0200
  Re: ENVIRONMENT? Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-07-03 18:24 +0000
    Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 01:55 -0700
      Re: ENVIRONMENT? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-07-05 00:19 -0700
    Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 02:29 -0700
      Re: ENVIRONMENT? Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-07-04 15:53 +0000
      Re: ENVIRONMENT? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2012-07-04 18:03 +0200
      Re: ENVIRONMENT? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-07-06 15:42 +0000
        Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-06 11:41 -0700
          Re: ENVIRONMENT? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-07-06 14:14 -0700
          Re: ENVIRONMENT? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-06 23:51 +0200
          Re: ENVIRONMENT? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-07-07 09:24 +0000
  Re: ENVIRONMENT? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-07-03 21:46 -0700
    Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 02:04 -0700
      Re: ENVIRONMENT? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-04 04:30 -0500
      Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 02:32 -0700
      Re: ENVIRONMENT? Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-07-04 16:00 +0000
        Re: ENVIRONMENT? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 08:37 -0700

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