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Groups > comp.lang.c > #380602 > unrolled thread

iso646.h

Started byLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
First post2024-01-22 01:51 +0000
Last post2024-01-25 15:02 +0100
Articles 20 on this page of 649 — 20 participants

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  iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-22 01:51 +0000
    Re: iso646.h Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-01-22 02:00 +0000
    Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-21 21:48 -0500
      Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-22 05:23 +0000
    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-22 09:30 +0100
      Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-22 16:24 +0000
        Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-22 20:34 +0000
          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-22 13:22 -0800
            Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-22 22:07 +0000
              Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-22 14:56 -0800
                Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-22 23:44 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-23 00:10 +0000
      Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-22 20:34 +0000
        Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-22 21:32 +0000
        Re: iso646.h Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-01-22 23:08 +0000
          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-22 23:37 +0000
            Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-23 00:12 +0000
            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-23 06:54 +0100
              Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 06:05 +0000
                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 09:34 +0100
                Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 15:43 +0000
        Re: iso646.h Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-01-22 20:23 -0800
        Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-23 06:47 +0100
          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 21:50 +0000
            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 08:59 +0100
        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-23 09:24 +0100
          Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-23 21:30 +0000
            Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-23 22:03 +0000
            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 08:53 +0100
              Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 07:58 -0800
                Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 20:11 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 12:23 -0800
                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-24 21:55 +0100
                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-25 07:22 +0100
                  Re: iso646.h Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-01-24 20:25 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 00:17 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-01-25 00:50 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-25 01:23 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 18:30 -0800
                      Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-25 01:33 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 21:20 +0000
              Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 16:56 +0000
                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 18:07 +0100
                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 18:12 +0100
                  Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 21:08 +0000
            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-24 10:03 +0100
        Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-23 11:54 +0000
        Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 16:32 +0000
          Re: iso646.h Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-01-23 17:21 +0000
            Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-23 21:49 +0000
            Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 21:52 +0000
              Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 14:51 -0800
                Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 23:33 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 16:16 -0800
                    Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 00:39 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 11:53 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 09:15 +0100
              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 09:02 +0100
            C/CPP macro conventions (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 08:25 +0100
              Re: C/CPP macro conventions (was Re: iso646.h) Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 08:25 +0000
                Re: C/CPP macro conventions (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 10:09 +0100
                Re: C/CPP macro conventions (was Re: iso646.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-24 10:13 +0100
                Re: C/CPP macro conventions (was Re: iso646.h) Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-01-25 23:05 +0000
          Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-23 18:34 +0000
            Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-23 18:52 +0000
              Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-23 14:23 -0500
                Re: iso646.h kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-23 20:32 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 21:52 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-23 22:09 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-23 22:37 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 09:10 +0100
                          Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-24 12:24 -0500
                            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 18:38 +0100
                              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 18:42 +0100
                              Re: iso646.h kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-24 17:49 +0000
                                Re: iso646.h kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-24 18:40 +0000
                                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 20:15 +0000
                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-24 22:01 +0100
                              Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 11:52 -0800
                                Re: iso646.h kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-24 20:03 +0000
                            Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 20:14 +0000
                            Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 21:11 +0000
                              Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-25 00:01 -0500
                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 13:43 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-25 14:19 +0100
                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 15:20 +0100
                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-25 16:40 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-25 13:43 +0000
                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 16:11 +0100
                                Re: iso646.h Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-02-03 11:35 -0800
                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 09:09 +0100
                  Unix shell conditionals (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 08:38 +0100
                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-23 21:28 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-23 22:00 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-23 22:33 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-23 23:46 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 14:49 -0800
                  Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-23 19:45 -0500
                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 09:28 +0100
            Python (Re: iso646.h) kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-23 19:32 +0000
              Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-23 19:59 +0000
                Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-23 20:18 +0000
                  Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2024-01-24 07:49 -0700
                    Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-24 15:07 +0000
                    Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-01-24 15:17 +0000
                      Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-24 15:46 +0000
                        Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-01-24 16:27 +0000
                          Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-24 19:55 +0000
                            Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-01-24 20:57 +0000
                        Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 20:17 +0000
                          Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-25 12:13 +0000
                            Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-25 14:57 +0000
                              Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 16:17 +0100
                              Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-25 15:52 +0000
                                Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-25 16:14 +0000
                                Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-25 11:27 -0800
                            Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-25 18:06 +0000
                              Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-25 19:35 +0000
                    Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-24 15:56 +0000
              Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 12:09 -0800
                Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 22:00 +0000
                  Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-01-27 22:12 +0000
                    Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-28 00:29 +0000
              Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 21:55 +0000
                Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-23 22:47 +0000
                  Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 15:35 -0800
                    Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 00:41 +0000
                      Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 03:13 +0000
                  Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 23:37 +0000
                    Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-01-26 05:48 -0800
                  Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-23 23:51 +0000
                    Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 16:35 -0800
                      Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 16:40 -0800
                  Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-24 00:06 +0000
                    Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-24 12:37 +0100
                  Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-01-25 22:55 +0000
              Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-01-24 13:30 +0000
            Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 12:13 -0800
              Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 22:01 +0000
                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-23 22:45 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 23:39 +0000
                Re: iso646.h kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-23 22:54 +0000
                Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 15:10 -0800
                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 23:40 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 16:27 -0800
                      Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 00:47 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 17:32 -0800
                          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 02:42 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-23 23:56 -0500
                          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 05:24 +0000
                            Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 21:43 -0800
                              Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 06:35 +0000
                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-24 14:14 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 20:19 +0000
                                Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 07:34 -0800
                      Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-23 23:26 -0500
                        Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 20:53 -0800
                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 09:41 +0100
                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 08:15 -0800
                    Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 19:32 +0000
              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 09:06 +0100
                Re: iso646.h Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-01-24 14:17 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 08:30 -0800
                    Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 21:00 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-24 22:13 +0000
                        Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 00:44 +0000
                          Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-25 01:37 +0000
                            Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-01-25 02:20 +0000
                              Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 18:23 -0800
                              Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-25 11:58 +0000
                            Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 02:49 +0000
                              Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 19:09 -0800
                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 17:44 +0100
                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-24 17:27 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 20:21 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 12:26 -0800
                    Re: iso646.h Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-01-24 20:31 +0000
                      Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 00:53 +0000
                        Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-25 01:24 +0000
                          Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 18:21 -0800
                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-24 22:09 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 23:20 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 15:56 -0800
            Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 12:20 +0000
              Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-24 13:00 +0000
              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 14:22 +0100
              Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-24 14:54 +0100
                Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 08:27 -0800
                  Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 20:50 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 14:01 +0100
                      Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-25 13:53 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 16:48 +0100
                      Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-25 09:57 -0800
                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 21:07 +0100
                          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 20:18 +0000
                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-26 15:59 +0100
                              Re: Compose Key (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-26 21:22 +0000
                                Re: Compose Key (was Re: iso646.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-27 16:17 +0100
                                  Re: Compose Key (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-27 21:28 +0000
                                  Re: Compose Key (was Re: iso646.h) Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-01-27 22:38 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 20:08 +0000
                          Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-25 20:30 +0000
                          Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-25 21:13 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 20:06 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-25 21:04 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-25 21:16 +0000
                          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 22:01 +0000
                            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-26 02:11 +0100
                              Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-26 01:19 +0000
                        Operators (Algol 68) (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-26 02:08 +0100
                  Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-25 00:52 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 17:07 -0800
                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-25 07:48 +0100
                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 14:07 +0100
                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-25 14:35 +0100
                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 16:53 +0100
                          Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-25 17:11 +0100
                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 21:11 +0100
                              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-26 02:21 +0100
                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-26 17:01 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-26 18:31 +0100
                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-26 19:59 +0100
                                      Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-26 12:27 -0800
                                        Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-26 22:01 +0100
                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-26 22:30 +0100
                                        Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-26 20:22 -0500
                                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-27 16:43 +0100
                                          Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-28 20:14 +0100
                                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 14:09 +0100
                                    Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-26 20:10 -0500
                                      Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-27 16:44 +0100
                                        Re: Functional Programming (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-27 20:49 +0000
                                          Re: Functional Programming (was Re: iso646.h) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 00:22 +0000
                                            Re: Functional Programming (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-28 01:18 +0000
                                              Re: Functional Programming (was Re: iso646.h) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 02:06 +0000
                                          Re: Functional Programming (was Re: iso646.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-28 12:35 +0100
                                            Re: Functional Programming (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-28 20:40 +0000
                                              Re: Functional Programming (was Re: iso646.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 09:52 +0100
                                                Re: Functional Programming (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-02 05:13 +0000
                                                  Re: Functional Programming (was Re: iso646.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-02 09:21 +0100
                                        Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-28 01:31 -0500
                                          Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-28 12:40 +0100
                      Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-26 21:16 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-26 22:46 +0100
                          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-26 22:41 +0000
                            Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-26 15:41 -0800
                              Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-26 23:51 +0000
                                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-27 01:17 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-27 16:25 +0000
                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-28 18:46 +0100
                          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-26 23:52 +0000
                            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-27 01:27 +0100
                              Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-27 00:38 +0000
                                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-27 11:09 +0100
                                  Re: Localization (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-27 20:58 +0000
                                    Re: Localization (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-28 15:57 +0100
                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-27 16:58 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-27 17:26 +0000
                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-27 18:53 +0100
                                      Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-27 19:39 +0000
                                      Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 17:31 -0800
                                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-28 12:50 +0100
                                    Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-27 20:59 +0000
                                      Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 17:34 -0800
                                        Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-28 01:50 +0000
                                          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 17:53 -0800
                                        Re: iso646.h "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 18:47 -0800
                                      Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-28 12:53 +0100
                                        Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-28 20:43 +0000
                                          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 14:49 -0800
                                            Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-29 00:03 +0000
                                              Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-29 01:24 +0000
                                              Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 17:48 -0800
                                                Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-29 02:17 +0000
                                                  Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 17:06 +0100
                                              Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 17:05 +0100
                                                Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-29 23:56 +0000
                                          Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 13:35 +0100
                                            Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-29 16:23 +0000
                                              Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 18:40 +0100
                                Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 16:33 -0800
                              Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-27 00:42 +0000
                                Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 03:16 +0000
                              Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-27 17:24 +0000
                                Re: Java (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-27 21:04 +0000
                                  [OT] Re: Java (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-28 17:42 +0100
                                    Re: [OT] Re: Java (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-28 20:44 +0000
                                [OT] Usefulness of OO/C++/features (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-28 17:18 +0100
                            Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 03:11 +0000
                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 03:24 +0000
                            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-27 11:43 +0100
                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 11:13 +0000
                                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-27 12:53 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 20:17 +0000
                                    Re: iso646.h Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-01-27 21:40 +0000
                                      Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-28 00:31 +0000
                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-28 18:22 +0100
                                      Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 22:55 +0000
                                      Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 15:00 -0800
                                        Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-29 12:09 -0500
                                        Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-29 19:33 +0100
                                          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-29 12:48 -0800
                                          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-29 23:51 +0000
                                        Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-29 12:10 -0500
                                          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-29 12:53 -0800
                                Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-27 21:06 +0000
                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 00:35 +0000
                                    Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-28 01:22 +0000
                                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 17:26 -0800
                                      Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 01:59 +0000
                                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-28 13:00 +0100
                                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 16:09 +0000
                                            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-28 18:06 +0100
                                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-28 19:24 +0100
                                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 19:49 +0000
                                                Re: Binary Pipelines (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-28 20:48 +0000
                                                Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 14:54 -0800
                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 17:18 +0100
                                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-29 18:47 +0000
                                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 21:06 +0100
                                                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-29 13:00 -0800
                                                      Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 18:29 +0000
                                                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-30 20:23 +0100
                                                        Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 12:06 -0800
                                                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 21:04 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-31 06:04 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 08:59 +0100
                                                                Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 12:53 +0200
                                                                  Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 14:21 +0100
                                                            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 14:02 +0100
                                                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 14:05 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 14:35 +0100
                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 11:30 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 18:35 +0100
                                                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 22:41 +0100
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 01:59 +0100
                                                    Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-29 23:55 +0000
                                                Re: iso646.h Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-01-29 12:10 -0800
                                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-29 22:14 +0000
                                                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-29 22:24 +0000
                                                    Re: iso646.h Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-01-29 23:27 -0800
                                                      Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 09:13 +0000
                                                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-30 14:03 +0100
                                                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 15:49 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-30 16:06 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-01-30 16:12 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 16:33 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-30 16:54 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-01-30 19:39 +0000
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-31 06:12 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-31 01:39 -0500
                                                                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:20 +0000
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 14:47 +0100
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-01-31 19:43 +0000
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 12:14 -0800
                                                                        Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-31 20:25 +0000
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 13:26 -0800
                                                                            Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-02-01 01:23 +0000
                                                                              Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 01:34 +0000
                                                                                Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-02-01 16:28 +0000
                                                                        Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 23:25 +0000
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 15:34 -0800
                                                                            Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 01:58 +0000
                                                                              Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 18:27 -0800
                                                                              Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 14:52 +0000
                                                                                Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 16:01 +0000
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-02 01:13 +0000
                                                                            Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-02 02:15 +0000
                                                                              Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-02 05:08 +0000
                                                                                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-02 15:28 +0000
                                                                            Re: iso646.h Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-02-02 16:50 +0000
                                                                        Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-02-01 00:52 -0500
                                                                      Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-02-01 00:45 -0500
                                                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-30 17:25 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-30 16:55 +0000
                                                                Creation era of stdin, stdout, stderr (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-30 19:06 +0100
                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-30 20:29 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-30 20:24 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 12:55 -0800
                                                                  Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-30 21:42 +0000
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-31 06:10 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h dave_thompson_2@comcast.net - 2024-02-26 04:20 -0500
                                                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 17:34 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-30 18:43 +0000
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-30 20:54 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-31 06:07 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 14:45 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:20 +0000
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 08:38 -0800
                                                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 19:05 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-02 00:08 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 02:10 +0100
                                                                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-02 02:12 +0000
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 03:42 +0100
                                                                        Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-02 03:47 +0000
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 20:02 -0800
                                                              Re: iso646.h dave_thompson_2@comcast.net - 2024-02-26 04:18 -0500
                                                        Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-30 15:00 +0000
                                                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 15:21 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-30 15:53 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-31 06:03 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 15:28 +0200
                                                          Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-30 15:30 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-30 15:54 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-30 16:10 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-30 17:49 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-30 18:22 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-30 18:44 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-30 20:46 +0100
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 12:22 +0100
                                                                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 14:58 +0100
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 15:39 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 18:39 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-01-30 19:45 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 11:59 -0800
                                                                  Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-30 16:16 -0500
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 12:35 +0100
                                                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 15:09 +0100
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 15:46 +0100
                                                                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 19:11 +0100
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 10:35 -0800
                                                                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 11:34 +0100
                                                                              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 17:24 +0100
                                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 22:46 +0100
                                                                      Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:29 +0000
                                                                        Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 08:41 -0800
                                                                          Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 17:06 +0000
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-31 06:00 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:15 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 11:50 -0800
                                                                Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-31 06:02 +0000
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 12:43 +0100
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 13:58 +0200
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 13:35 +0100
                                                                        Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 15:10 +0200
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 18:19 +0100
                                                                            Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 19:53 +0200
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-01 23:49 +0000
                                                                        Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:17 +0000
                                                                        Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-31 11:20 -0500
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 18:06 +0100
                                                                            Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-01 23:52 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 08:30 -0800
                                                                  Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:16 +0000
                                                        Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-31 06:06 +0000
                                                        Re: iso646.h Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-01-30 23:18 -0800
                                                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 08:36 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 15:21 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:22 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 19:15 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 16:25 +0100
                                                                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:58 +0000
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 17:17 +0100
                                                                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 17:05 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 18:26 +0200
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 18:27 +0200
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 19:01 +0100
                                                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 19:24 +0100
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 02:18 +0100
                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 19:20 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 02:48 +0100
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-02 07:16 +0000
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 13:17 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 16:04 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 08:33 -0800
                                                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 23:48 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 16:49 -0800
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 01:10 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 17:36 -0800
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 02:23 +0000
                                                                        Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 18:30 -0800
                                                                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 00:49 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-02-01 05:24 -0800
                                                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 15:07 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 12:18 -0800
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 23:57 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 13:34 +0100
                                                                Re: iso646.h Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-02-03 11:27 -0800
                                                          Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 12:43 +0200
                                                            Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 12:15 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 13:49 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 17:03 +0200
                                                                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:49 +0000
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 18:04 +0200
                                                                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 16:54 +0000
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 09:16 -0800
                                                                        Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 17:21 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 15:53 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 17:29 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 19:36 +0200
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 19:47 +0100
                                                            Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:25 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 16:33 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 17:42 +0200
                                                                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:58 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 17:05 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 18:18 +0200
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 17:47 +0100
                                                                      Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 17:20 +0000
                                                                        [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 20:11 +0100
                                                                          Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 19:28 +0000
                                                                            Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 13:12 +0100
                                                                              Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-02-01 12:50 +0000
                                                                                Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-02 04:57 +0000
                                                                                  Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-02 07:18 +0000
                                                                                    Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-03 01:44 +0000
                                                                                  Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-02 09:34 +0100
                                                                                  Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-02-02 10:57 +0000
                                                                                    Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-03 01:43 +0000
                                                                                      Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-02-03 12:47 -0800
                                                                                        Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-04 22:36 +0000
                                                                                          Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-02-04 15:26 -0800
                                                                                            Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-05 01:49 +0000
                                                                                              Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-02-04 18:08 -0800
                                                                              Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 15:04 +0000
                                                                                Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 16:16 +0100
                                                                          Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-01-31 20:16 +0000
                                                                            Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 22:22 +0200
                                                                              Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 20:50 +0000
                                                                                Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 23:00 +0200
                                                                                  Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-01-31 21:20 +0000
                                                                                    Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 13:27 +0100
                                                                            Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 13:16 +0100
                                                                              Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-02-01 13:21 +0000
                                                                          Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 11:45 +0100
                                                                            Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 13:03 +0100
                                                                            Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-02 04:58 +0000
                                                                          Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-02-01 05:22 -0800
                                                                            [meta] Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 15:38 +0100
                                                                            Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-02 05:00 +0000
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 19:22 +0100
                                                            Re: iso646.h Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-02-01 05:17 -0800
                                                            Re: Alternative Shells (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-02 05:04 +0000
                                                        Re: iso646.h Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-01-31 23:36 +0000
                                                          Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-02-01 00:21 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 00:47 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-02-01 01:29 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 14:42 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 15:50 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-02-01 17:06 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 23:02 +0100
                                                                      Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-02-01 22:56 +0000
                                                                        Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 03:13 +0100
                                                                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-02 09:44 +0100
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-02 01:08 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 15:35 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-02-01 15:32 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 12:23 -0800
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 03:26 +0100
                                                            Re: iso646.h Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-02-02 23:41 +0000
                                                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 01:53 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 14:45 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 14:57 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 16:47 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 16:22 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 15:55 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 15:41 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 17:15 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 19:36 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-02-01 19:50 +0000
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-02-01 20:03 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 23:06 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 22:38 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-02 09:51 +0100
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-02 13:28 +0000
                                                                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-02 15:47 +0100
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-02 15:38 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-02-02 23:38 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-02-02 23:59 +0000
                                                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 05:24 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 14:02 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 13:26 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 16:07 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 15:50 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 16:30 +0000
                                                                      Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-02-01 18:03 +0000
                                                                        Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 12:09 -0800
                                                                          Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 20:59 +0000
                                                                          Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-02-01 21:25 +0000
                                                                            Re: iso646.h "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 13:34 -0800
                                                                              Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 22:25 +0000
                                                                                Re: iso646.h "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 14:40 -0800
                                                                                Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 15:31 -0800
                                                                            Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 22:24 +0000
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 12:41 +0100
                                                                            Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-02-02 08:39 -0800
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 12:33 +0100
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-02-02 21:40 +0000
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-03 05:14 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 16:48 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 16:19 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 14:53 +0000
                                          Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-28 18:02 +0100
                Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 19:33 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-24 19:45 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-24 19:48 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 00:30 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-25 03:56 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 05:25 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-25 07:02 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 14:46 +0100
                  Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 14:29 +0100
                    Re: iso646.h kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-25 15:08 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-25 16:18 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-25 11:20 -0800
                        Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-26 12:17 +0000
                          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-26 07:56 -0800
                            Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-26 23:03 +0000
                          Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-26 17:06 +0100
                            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-26 18:59 +0100
                              Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-26 20:18 +0100
                                Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-26 23:15 +0000
                                  Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-26 15:55 -0800
                                  Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-27 17:07 +0100
                                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 17:34 -0800
                                      Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-28 13:02 +0100
                                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-27 01:12 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-26 20:43 -0500
                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-27 11:21 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 03:05 +0000
                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-27 11:34 +0100
                                      Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 11:02 +0000
                                        Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-27 12:36 +0100
                                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-29 18:32 +0000
                                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 19:48 +0100
                                              Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-29 19:35 +0000
                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 21:10 +0100
                                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-29 22:27 +0000
                                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-30 10:05 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-27 17:46 +0100
                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-28 20:16 +0100
                                      Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 17:20 +0100
                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-25 10:48 -0800
          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 21:51 +0000
            Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 19:48 +0000
              Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-24 19:52 +0000
                Re: iso646.h "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 13:00 -0800
                Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 00:26 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-25 01:25 +0000
              Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 12:09 -0800
                Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-25 03:46 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 19:59 -0800
                    Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-25 05:39 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-25 09:55 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 15:19 +0100
                        Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-25 07:26 -0800
                          Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-26 17:12 +0100
                      Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-25 16:22 +0000
              Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 15:02 +0100

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#380693 — Re: Python (Re: iso646.h)

Frombart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2024-01-23 19:59 +0000
SubjectRe: Python (Re: iso646.h)
Message-ID<uop5rs$1dv1c$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#380691
On 23/01/2024 19:32, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
> bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>> Presumably everyone knows what AND and OR mean. So
>> why not just use AND and OR?
> 
> Maybe back in the early days of C even a one byte
> mattered?

Plenty of languages already existed that used 'and', 'or' and 'not'.

My first language did so as well, and was implemented on a smaller 
machine than the first C compiler.

If compact code was advantageous, then you have to wonder about the 
considerable amount of punctuation in C.

> strlen("AND") is 3 and strlen("&&") is 2.
> So they chose "&&" and then "||" was chosen because
> of symmetry? Just speculation, of course.

Why two & and two |? Was '|' even commonly available on keyboards at the 
time? I'm pretty sure 'o' and 'r' were!

Although whether in lower case, I don't know. If not, then just typing 
'if' was going to be a problem.


> Dennis Ritchie has said that he regretted the
> spelling of creat(2) function. Presumably the
> abbreviation was supposed to save one byte of
> storage.

Such identifiers would been exposed to external tools such as assemblers 
and linkers, which may have had their own limits. Keywords such as 'and' 
are internal to the C compiler.


> Anyway, sorry for the off-topic, but Python aims to
> be like what you say. It should be like executable
> pseudo-code

That's a good idea. I've often wondered why, if pseudo-code is so easy 
to understand, why it isn't used more for real languages.

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#380696 — Re: Python (Re: iso646.h)

Fromkalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen)
Date2024-01-23 20:18 +0000
SubjectRe: Python (Re: iso646.h)
Message-ID<uop6tv$1e5f9$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#380693
bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
> On 23/01/2024 19:32, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
>> bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>>> Presumably everyone knows what AND and OR mean. So
>>> why not just use AND and OR?
>> 
>> Maybe back in the early days of C even a one byte
>> mattered?
> 
> Plenty of languages already existed that used 'and', 'or' and 'not'.

I actually know that but it could have mattered
to Dennis Ritchie to be as succinct as possible.

In the same spirit as UNIX has "ls" not "list", "cp" 
not "copy" and "mv" not "move".

> My first language did so as well, and was implemented on a smaller 
> machine than the first C compiler.
> 
> If compact code was advantageous, then you have to wonder about the 
> considerable amount of punctuation in C.

True.

>> strlen("AND") is 3 and strlen("&&") is 2.
>> So they chose "&&" and then "||" was chosen because
>> of symmetry? Just speculation, of course.
> 
> Why two & and two |? Was '|' even commonly available on keyboards at the 
> time? I'm pretty sure 'o' and 'r' were!

I really do not know. I never thought of that but
it does seem strange especially if one claims
that they wanted to save storage.

I guess some old formal logic books use
a single "&" for logical AND before the operators
became standardized.

> Although whether in lower case, I don't know. If not, 
> then just typing 
> 'if' was going to be a problem.
> 
> 
>> Dennis Ritchie has said that he regretted the
>> spelling of creat(2) function. Presumably the
>> abbreviation was supposed to save one byte of
>> storage.
> 
> Such identifiers would been exposed to external tools such as assemblers 
> and linkers, which may have had their own limits. Keywords such as 'and' 
> are internal to the C compiler.

I don't believe strlen("create") == 6 would have 
exceeded any limits. Ritchie's regret seems to
confirm that. It implies that he could have chosen
"create" as well, but for some reason he did not
do so.

>> Anyway, sorry for the off-topic, but Python aims to
>> be like what you say. It should be like executable
>> pseudo-code
> 
> That's a good idea. I've often wondered why, if pseudo-code 
> is so easy to understand, why it isn't used more for real 
> languages.

Yes, Python is a nice language but the last time
I checked, an O'Reilly Learning Python book was something
like 2000 pages long...

ChatGPT did not know the answer, but this time Google
did: Learning Python, 5th edition (2013) is 1643 pages.

I have no problem with large texts, but I just have to 
live with a proper subset of Python features.

br,
KK

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#380792 — Re: Python (Re: iso646.h)

FromJoe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu>
Date2024-01-24 07:49 -0700
SubjectRe: Python (Re: iso646.h)
Message-ID<1bbk9a4wi2.fsf@pfeifferfamily.net>
In reply to#380696
kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) writes:

> bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>> On 23/01/2024 19:32, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
>>> bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>>>> Presumably everyone knows what AND and OR mean. So
>>>> why not just use AND and OR?
>>> 
>>> Maybe back in the early days of C even a one byte
>>> mattered?
>> 
>> Plenty of languages already existed that used 'and', 'or' and 'not'.
>
> I actually know that but it could have mattered
> to Dennis Ritchie to be as succinct as possible.
>
> In the same spirit as UNIX has "ls" not "list", "cp" 
> not "copy" and "mv" not "move".
>
>> My first language did so as well, and was implemented on a smaller 
>> machine than the first C compiler.
>> 
>> If compact code was advantageous, then you have to wonder about the 
>> considerable amount of punctuation in C.
>
> True.
>
>>> strlen("AND") is 3 and strlen("&&") is 2.
>>> So they chose "&&" and then "||" was chosen because
>>> of symmetry? Just speculation, of course.
>> 
>> Why two & and two |? Was '|' even commonly available on keyboards at the 
>> time? I'm pretty sure 'o' and 'r' were!
>
> I really do not know. I never thought of that but
> it does seem strange especially if one claims
> that they wanted to save storage.

Back when I was learning Unix and C (late 1970s), the consensus belief
in my department was that they were simply poor typists.  So many
commands that use two letters, one that can be typed with each hand, or
commands that are one letter repeated (I've got a dd copying a disk
image even as we speak).

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#380794 — Re: Python (Re: iso646.h)

Fromkalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen)
Date2024-01-24 15:07 +0000
SubjectRe: Python (Re: iso646.h)
Message-ID<uor94c$1rlqj$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#380792
Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
> Back when I was learning Unix and C (late 1970s), the consensus belief
> in my department was that they were simply poor typists.  So many
> commands that use two letters, one that can be typed with each hand, or
> commands that are one letter repeated (I've got a dd copying a disk
> image even as we speak).

That could well be. Or maybe they wanted terse 
commands so that everybody could enter them quicker.

I am actually a big fan of those short commands. It 
is not difficult to remember them and they are 
so fast to enter.

br,
KK

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#380795 — Re: Python (Re: iso646.h)

Fromcross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross)
Date2024-01-24 15:17 +0000
SubjectRe: Python (Re: iso646.h)
Message-ID<uor9n1$dcn$1@reader1.panix.com>
In reply to#380792
In article <1bbk9a4wi2.fsf@pfeifferfamily.net>,
Joe Pfeiffer  <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) writes:
>[snip]
>>> Why two & and two |? Was '|' even commonly available on keyboards at the 
>>> time? I'm pretty sure 'o' and 'r' were!
>>
>> I really do not know. I never thought of that but
>> it does seem strange especially if one claims
>> that they wanted to save storage.
>
>Back when I was learning Unix and C (late 1970s), the consensus belief
>in my department was that they were simply poor typists.  So many
>commands that use two letters, one that can be typed with each hand, or
>commands that are one letter repeated (I've got a dd copying a disk
>image even as we speak).

The two-letter command thing dates from Multics, where most
commands had a "long" form (e.g., `list`) and a short form
(`ls`).

It is true that they were using teletypes like the ASR-33, which
were both slow and difficult to type on (more force required per
keystroke compared to modern keyboards), so brevity was prized.
Also, line rates were very slow, 110 or 300 BAUD; economy of
expression giving brevity lead to greater throughput.

One sees this carry through to B: in Dennis Ritchie's paper on
the history of C, one sees that many of the characteristics of
B were designed to economize on space, as the PDP-7 was a small
machine.  https://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dmr/www/chist.html

	- Dan C.

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#380799 — Re: Python (Re: iso646.h)

Frombart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2024-01-24 15:46 +0000
SubjectRe: Python (Re: iso646.h)
Message-ID<uorbbr$1s2e2$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#380795
On 24/01/2024 15:17, Dan Cross wrote:
> In article <1bbk9a4wi2.fsf@pfeifferfamily.net>,
> Joe Pfeiffer  <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>> kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) writes:
>> [snip]
>>>> Why two & and two |? Was '|' even commonly available on keyboards at the
>>>> time? I'm pretty sure 'o' and 'r' were!
>>>
>>> I really do not know. I never thought of that but
>>> it does seem strange especially if one claims
>>> that they wanted to save storage.
>>
>> Back when I was learning Unix and C (late 1970s), the consensus belief
>> in my department was that they were simply poor typists.  So many
>> commands that use two letters, one that can be typed with each hand, or
>> commands that are one letter repeated (I've got a dd copying a disk
>> image even as we speak).
> 
> The two-letter command thing dates from Multics, where most
> commands had a "long" form (e.g., `list`) and a short form
> (`ls`).
> 
> It is true that they were using teletypes like the ASR-33, which
> were both slow and difficult to type on (more force required per
> keystroke compared to modern keyboards), so brevity was prized.
> Also, line rates were very slow, 110 or 300 BAUD; economy of
> expression giving brevity lead to greater throughput.

I think you're just making excuses.

I used ASR33s extensively and had no trouble typing on them. (Other than 
a small latency between pressing a key and having it printed that you 
got used to, but it didn't affect your typing speed.)

A 110 baud speed means max 10 characters per second, about 120 words per 
minute. That's twice as fast as an expert typist on a modern keyboard.

So it's hardly as though that was the limiting factor.

It's also laughable that I get shouted down when I complain about all 
the extra junk you have to type here:

     cc prog.c -o prog -lm

compared with a minimal:

     cc prog

but the use of 2-letter abbbreviations to save having to type out a 3 or 
4-letter word (which is easier and quicker to type type than random 
punctuation) gets lauded.

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#380804 — Re: Python (Re: iso646.h)

Fromcross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross)
Date2024-01-24 16:27 +0000
SubjectRe: Python (Re: iso646.h)
Message-ID<uordpj$2eh$1@reader1.panix.com>
In reply to#380799
In article <uorbbr$1s2e2$1@dont-email.me>, bart  <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>On 24/01/2024 15:17, Dan Cross wrote:
>> In article <1bbk9a4wi2.fsf@pfeifferfamily.net>,
>> Joe Pfeiffer  <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>>> kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) writes:
>>> [snip]
>>>>> Why two & and two |? Was '|' even commonly available on keyboards at the
>>>>> time? I'm pretty sure 'o' and 'r' were!
>>>>
>>>> I really do not know. I never thought of that but
>>>> it does seem strange especially if one claims
>>>> that they wanted to save storage.
>>>
>>> Back when I was learning Unix and C (late 1970s), the consensus belief
>>> in my department was that they were simply poor typists.  So many
>>> commands that use two letters, one that can be typed with each hand, or
>>> commands that are one letter repeated (I've got a dd copying a disk
>>> image even as we speak).
>> 
>> The two-letter command thing dates from Multics, where most
>> commands had a "long" form (e.g., `list`) and a short form
>> (`ls`).
>> 
>> It is true that they were using teletypes like the ASR-33, which
>> were both slow and difficult to type on (more force required per
>> keystroke compared to modern keyboards), so brevity was prized.
>> Also, line rates were very slow, 110 or 300 BAUD; economy of
>> expression giving brevity lead to greater throughput.
>
>I think you're just making excuses.

Rather, I'm simply explaining the history.

>I used ASR33s extensively and had no trouble typing on them. (Other than 
>a small latency between pressing a key and having it printed that you 
>got used to, but it didn't affect your typing speed.)

Anecdotal.  I, too, have typed on an ASR-33.  I did not find it
pleasant and my hands hurt after a short time.

>A 110 baud speed means max 10 characters per second, about 120 words per 
>minute. That's twice as fast as an expert typist on a modern keyboard.
>
>So it's hardly as though that was the limiting factor.
>
>It's also laughable that I get shouted down when I complain about all 
>the extra junk you have to type here:
>
>     cc prog.c -o prog -lm
>
>compared with a minimal:
>
>     cc prog
>
>but the use of 2-letter abbbreviations to save having to type out a 3 or 
>4-letter word (which is easier and quicker to type type than random 
>punctuation) gets lauded.

That all seems irrelevant to the introduction of two- and three-
letter command names in Unix.  Which, as I mentioned, largely
came from Multics.

	- Dan C.

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#380829 — Re: Python (Re: iso646.h)

Frombart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2024-01-24 19:55 +0000
SubjectRe: Python (Re: iso646.h)
Message-ID<uorq0d$1ueal$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#380804
On 24/01/2024 16:27, Dan Cross wrote:
> In article <uorbbr$1s2e2$1@dont-email.me>, bart  <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:

>> I think you're just making excuses.
> 
> Rather, I'm simply explaining the history.
> 
>> I used ASR33s extensively and had no trouble typing on them. (Other than
>> a small latency between pressing a key and having it printed that you
>> got used to, but it didn't affect your typing speed.)
> 
> Anecdotal.  I, too, have typed on an ASR-33.  I did not find it
> pleasant and my hands hurt after a short time.


If this is the same terminal that you have to type program source code 
on (especially C source!), and edit it, then clearly having two-letter 
shell file commands instead of 3 or 4 letters is giving to make little 
overall difference to how long development might take, or any fatigue 
experienced.

(I don't remember that bit, but maybe my programs were short, and I 
could only book terminals for an hour at a time anyway.)

I think it was suggested somewhere that the characteristics of such a 
terminal were a reason for the short commands.


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#380846 — Re: Python (Re: iso646.h)

Fromcross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross)
Date2024-01-24 20:57 +0000
SubjectRe: Python (Re: iso646.h)
Message-ID<uortjc$m22$1@reader1.panix.com>
In reply to#380829
In article <uorq0d$1ueal$1@dont-email.me>, bart  <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>On 24/01/2024 16:27, Dan Cross wrote:
>> In article <uorbbr$1s2e2$1@dont-email.me>, bart  <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>
>>> I think you're just making excuses.
>> 
>> Rather, I'm simply explaining the history.
>> 
>>> I used ASR33s extensively and had no trouble typing on them. (Other than
>>> a small latency between pressing a key and having it printed that you
>>> got used to, but it didn't affect your typing speed.)
>> 
>> Anecdotal.  I, too, have typed on an ASR-33.  I did not find it
>> pleasant and my hands hurt after a short time.
>
>If this is the same terminal that you have to type program source code 
>on (especially C source!), and edit it, then clearly having two-letter 
>shell file commands instead of 3 or 4 letters is giving to make little 
>overall difference to how long development might take, or any fatigue 
>experienced.

That seems subjective.

>(I don't remember that bit, but maybe my programs were short, and I 
>could only book terminals for an hour at a time anyway.)
>
>I think it was suggested somewhere that the characteristics of such a 
>terminal were a reason for the short commands.

Dunno.  That's what some folks on the Multics project told me.
Unix just carried forward what they were familiar with, and they
seemed to think it was easier to type, as well.

Perhaps you personally had a different experience on an ASR-33.
I suppose that's nice for you, but hardly relevant to the
mindset of a different group of people more than 50 years ago.

	- Dan C.

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#380836 — Re: Python (Re: iso646.h)

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2024-01-24 20:17 +0000
SubjectRe: Python (Re: iso646.h)
Message-ID<uorr9h$1ulvh$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#380799
On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 15:46:04 +0000, bart wrote:

> It's also laughable that I get shouted down when I complain about all
> the extra junk you have to type here:
> 
>      cc prog.c -o prog -lm

We normally have Makefiles to do that for us.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#380896 — Re: Python (Re: iso646.h)

Frombart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2024-01-25 12:13 +0000
SubjectRe: Python (Re: iso646.h)
Message-ID<uotj97$29u9f$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#380836
On 24/01/2024 20:17, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 15:46:04 +0000, bart wrote:
> 
>> It's also laughable that I get shouted down when I complain about all
>> the extra junk you have to type here:
>>
>>       cc prog.c -o prog -lm
> 
> We normally have Makefiles to do that for us.

You have 17 different source files like 'prog.c' in the same folder, 
each a different program, and are using 4 different compilers, which are 
invoked in ad hoc permutations.

So your answer is to just put it all in a makefile (I'd like to see what 
you'd put in it) and type 'make', which magically knows your intentions?

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#380910 — Re: Python (Re: iso646.h)

Fromkalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen)
Date2024-01-25 14:57 +0000
SubjectRe: Python (Re: iso646.h)
Message-ID<uotssa$2bf8k$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#380896
bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
> On 24/01/2024 20:17, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 15:46:04 +0000, bart wrote:
>> 
>>> It's also laughable that I get shouted down when I complain about all
>>> the extra junk you have to type here:
>>>
>>>       cc prog.c -o prog -lm
>> 
>> We normally have Makefiles to do that for us.
> 
> You have 17 different source files like 'prog.c' in the same folder, 
> each a different program, and are using 4 different compilers, which are 
> invoked in ad hoc permutations.
> 
> So your answer is to just put it all in a makefile (I'd like to see what 
> you'd put in it) and type 'make', which magically knows your intentions?

I think I have said this before: The first mistake in that approach is 
lumping all the different C source files in the same directory. You 
should use subdirectories for different programs and their corresponding 
source files.

Anyway, even in this insane situation, you could use a Makefile. But
typing "make" would not suffice, you would have to use something like:

  make <program name>

br,
KK

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#380914 — Re: Python (Re: iso646.h)

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2024-01-25 16:17 +0100
SubjectRe: Python (Re: iso646.h)
Message-ID<uotu1o$2bk3u$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#380910
On 25/01/2024 15:57, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
> bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>> On 24/01/2024 20:17, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 15:46:04 +0000, bart wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's also laughable that I get shouted down when I complain about all
>>>> the extra junk you have to type here:
>>>>
>>>>        cc prog.c -o prog -lm
>>>
>>> We normally have Makefiles to do that for us.
>>
>> You have 17 different source files like 'prog.c' in the same folder,
>> each a different program, and are using 4 different compilers, which are
>> invoked in ad hoc permutations.
>>
>> So your answer is to just put it all in a makefile (I'd like to see what
>> you'd put in it) and type 'make', which magically knows your intentions?

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

> 
> I think I have said this before: The first mistake in that approach is
> lumping all the different C source files in the same directory. You
> should use subdirectories for different programs and their corresponding
> source files.
> 
> Anyway, even in this insane situation, you could use a Makefile. But
> typing "make" would not suffice, you would have to use something like:
> 
>    make <program name>
> 

Or you start your makefile with:

.PHONY all
all : prog1 prog2 prog3 prog4

and then by default it will build all the programs.

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#380918 — Re: Python (Re: iso646.h)

Frombart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2024-01-25 15:52 +0000
SubjectRe: Python (Re: iso646.h)
Message-ID<uou03a$2c0rb$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#380910
On 25/01/2024 14:57, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
> bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>> On 24/01/2024 20:17, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 15:46:04 +0000, bart wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's also laughable that I get shouted down when I complain about all
>>>> the extra junk you have to type here:
>>>>
>>>>        cc prog.c -o prog -lm
>>>
>>> We normally have Makefiles to do that for us.
>>
>> You have 17 different source files like 'prog.c' in the same folder,
>> each a different program, and are using 4 different compilers, which are
>> invoked in ad hoc permutations.
>>
>> So your answer is to just put it all in a makefile (I'd like to see what
>> you'd put in it) and type 'make', which magically knows your intentions?
> 
> I think I have said this before: The first mistake in that approach is
> lumping all the different C source files in the same directory.

Then you will instead be issuing commands to switch between directories 
all the time.

Is that what you do with, say, image files, have a dedicated folder per 
picture?

What's wrong having of lots of instances of the same type of file in one 
folder? (Most cameras do exactly that.) Then if you had a program P to 
operate on an image, you just type:

    P file

(Without even an extension if P only works with .jpg for example.)

This is how I think it is reasonable for a compiler for a specific 
language to work.

> You
> should use subdirectories for different programs and their corresponding
> source files.
> 
> Anyway, even in this insane situation, you could use a Makefile.

A typical session in a console or terminal (at least for me) is typing 
commands to copy, create, delete, rename files and folders, or to 
navigate between folders, launch programs which have parameters, etc. etc.

Some of those programs could be compilers, others the programs they 
generate.

All lots of ad hoc activities with no particular pattern.

You wouldn't put such an arbitrary sequence, that you don't know in 
advance anyway, into a script such as a makefile. Only if you see a 
repeating pattern that you will invoke repeatedly.

Fortunately most such commands mentioned are sensible: there is rarely 
extraneous detail you have to enter over and over again, when it is 
something that it should know or assume anyway.

My comment was anyway just highlighting the difference between people 
getting uptight about having to type 'list' instead 'ls', and those who 
just shrug at having to do 'gcc prog.c -o prog.c -lm ...'. Apparently 
that is acceptable.

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#380921 — Re: Python (Re: iso646.h)

Fromkalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen)
Date2024-01-25 16:14 +0000
SubjectRe: Python (Re: iso646.h)
Message-ID<uou1d5$2c8j9$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#380918
bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
> On 25/01/2024 14:57, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
>> bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>>> On 24/01/2024 20:17, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 15:46:04 +0000, bart wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It's also laughable that I get shouted down when I complain about all
>>>>> the extra junk you have to type here:
>>>>>
>>>>>        cc prog.c -o prog -lm
>>>>
>>>> We normally have Makefiles to do that for us.
>>>
>>> You have 17 different source files like 'prog.c' in the same folder,
>>> each a different program, and are using 4 different compilers, which are
>>> invoked in ad hoc permutations.
>>>
>>> So your answer is to just put it all in a makefile (I'd like to see what
>>> you'd put in it) and type 'make', which magically knows your intentions?
>> 
>> I think I have said this before: The first mistake in that approach is
>> lumping all the different C source files in the same directory.
> 
> Then you will instead be issuing commands to switch between directories 
> all the time.

You can stay in the top level directory where you can do:

  make -C <subdirectory> <makefile target> 

Make will then descend into the subdirectory but your shell's working
directory will not change.

> Is that what you do with, say, image files, have a dedicated folder per 
> picture?

Image files are different in that normally you do not need to
use external programs to generate them like building binary programs
from source code.

But it makes sense to use subdirectories even with pictures. For
example to have a dedicated directory for:

1) Your recent New York holiday
2) Christmas 2023
3) Your rabbits

But having single photos in their dedicated directories does
not sound too great.

> What's wrong having of lots of instances of the same type of file in one 
> folder? (Most cameras do exactly that.) Then if you had a program P to 
> operate on an image, you just type:
> 
>    P file
> 
> (Without even an extension if P only works with .jpg for example.)

Yes, your C files are the same "type" as they are all C code. But
their content is not related to each other, they are are all for
different programs and should be separated to subdirectories.

But I see that you are not open to this idea that I find obvious
so it is pretty useless to discuss it any longer.

By the way, I have leeched some obscure movies using BitTorrent.

I always put them into their own subdirectories under ~/movies
even though they might contain only one, two or three files
(i.e. the movie itself, maybe a subtitles file and some kind of warez NFO
file).

> This is how I think it is reasonable for a compiler for a specific 
> language to work.
> 
>> You
>> should use subdirectories for different programs and their corresponding
>> source files.
>> 
>> Anyway, even in this insane situation, you could use a Makefile.
> 
> A typical session in a console or terminal (at least for me) is typing 
> commands to copy, create, delete, rename files and folders, or to 
> navigate between folders, launch programs which have parameters, etc. etc.
> 
> Some of those programs could be compilers, others the programs they 
> generate.
> 
> All lots of ad hoc activities with no particular pattern.
> 
> You wouldn't put such an arbitrary sequence, that you don't know in 
> advance anyway, into a script such as a makefile. Only if you see a 
> repeating pattern that you will invoke repeatedly.
> 
> Fortunately most such commands mentioned are sensible: there is rarely 
> extraneous detail you have to enter over and over again, when it is 
> something that it should know or assume anyway.
> 
> My comment was anyway just highlighting the difference between people 
> getting uptight about having to type 'list' instead 'ls', and those who 
> just shrug at having to do 'gcc prog.c -o prog.c -lm ...'. Apparently 
> that is acceptable.

Like somebody said: At least on UNIX/Linux/*BSD/Mac you rarely invoke
the compiler directly. Yeah I know you hate them but the commands are
buried inside Makefiles so that you can type easy make commands.

br,
KK

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#380936 — Re: Python (Re: iso646.h)

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2024-01-25 11:27 -0800
SubjectRe: Python (Re: iso646.h)
Message-ID<871qa543j1.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
In reply to#380918
bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
[...]
> My comment was anyway just highlighting the difference between people
> getting uptight about having to type 'list' instead 'ls', and those
> who just shrug at having to do 'gcc prog.c -o prog.c -lm
> ...'. Apparently that is acceptable.

We type "ls" instead of "list" because "ls" is the name of the command.
Nobody here was involved in the decision to use that name.  According to
some sources, the reason was the difficulty of typing on an ASR-33.  It
was likely also influenced by the existence of command aliases on
Multics.

Nobody would complain about having to type "list" if that were the name
of the command.  (I do have short aliases for some common commands, but
they're for my personal use and I don't expect anyone else to use them.)

Yes I find having to type "gcc prog.c -o prog -lm" acceptable.  I'll do
exactly that for a quick and dirty single-file C program.  For a larger
project, I'll use whatever build system the project uses -- sometimes a
Makefile, sometimes something else.  If "gcc prog" did the same thing,
I'd use that.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Medtronic
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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#380927 — Re: Python (Re: iso646.h)

FromKaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com>
Date2024-01-25 18:06 +0000
SubjectRe: Python (Re: iso646.h)
Message-ID<20240125085840.541@kylheku.com>
In reply to#380896
On 2024-01-25, bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
> On 24/01/2024 20:17, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 15:46:04 +0000, bart wrote:
>> 
>>> It's also laughable that I get shouted down when I complain about all
>>> the extra junk you have to type here:
>>>
>>>       cc prog.c -o prog -lm
>> 
>> We normally have Makefiles to do that for us.
>
> You have 17 different source files like 'prog.c' in the same folder, 
> each a different program, and are using 4 different compilers, which are 
> invoked in ad hoc permutations.
>
> So your answer is to just put it all in a makefile (I'd like to see what 
> you'd put in it) and type 'make', which magically knows your intentions?

Putting that into any file at all would be a good start.

The situation can be organized very nicely with GNU make.


compile_xcc = touch $(2)         # fictitious
compile_gcc = gcc $(1) -o $(2)

srcs := $(wildcard *.c)

progs.gcc := $(patsubst %.c,%.gcc,$(srcs))
progs.xcc := $(patsubst %.c,%.xcc,$(srcs))
progs := $(progs.gcc) $(progs.xcc)

%.gcc : %.c; $(call compile_gcc,$<,$@)

%.xcc : %.c; $(call compile_xcc,$<,$@)

.PHONY: all clean
all : $(progs)

clean : ; rm -f $(progs)



Now if we type "make", every .c file is built into a .gcc
and .xcc file.

We can use "make whatever.gcc" just to update that, if necessary.

"make clean" removes all the executables.

"make -n" will show commands without running them.

Suppose we want the gcc executables in a gcc/ directory,
and the xcc ones in xcc/. We can make it a bit more complicated,
and actually make the creation of the directory a dependency.
Because the timestamps of directories is irrelevant (only their
existence or absence) we use the "order only prerequisite" feature
of GNU Make, indicated by the | character.



compile_xcc = touch $(2)         # fictitious
compile_gcc = gcc $(1) -o $(2)

srcs := $(wildcard *.c)

progs.gcc := $(patsubst %.c,gcc/%,$(srcs))
progs.xcc := $(patsubst %.c,xcc/%,$(srcs))
progs := $(progs.gcc) $(progs.xcc)

gcc/% : %.c; $(call compile_gcc,$<,$@)

xcc/% : %.c; $(call compile_xcc,$<,$@)

% : ; mkdir $@

.PHONY: all clean
all : $(progs)

$(progs.gcc) : | gcc
$(progs.xcc) : | xcc

clean : ; rm -f $(progs); rmdir xcc gcc



Example session:

$ ls
Makefile  prog.c
$ make
mkdir gcc
gcc prog.c -o gcc/prog
mkdir xcc
touch xcc/prog
$ ls gcc
prog
$ ls xcc
prog
$ rm -rf gcc
$ make
mkdir gcc
gcc prog.c -o gcc/prog
$ rm -rf xcc
$ make
mkdir xcc
touch xcc/prog
$ make clean
rm -f gcc/prog xcc/prog; rmdir xcc gcc

-- 
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca

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#380937 — Re: Python (Re: iso646.h)

Frombart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2024-01-25 19:35 +0000
SubjectRe: Python (Re: iso646.h)
Message-ID<uoud54$2eb8l$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#380927
On 25/01/2024 18:06, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
> On 2024-01-25, bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>> On 24/01/2024 20:17, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 15:46:04 +0000, bart wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's also laughable that I get shouted down when I complain about all
>>>> the extra junk you have to type here:
>>>>
>>>>        cc prog.c -o prog -lm
>>>
>>> We normally have Makefiles to do that for us.
>>
>> You have 17 different source files like 'prog.c' in the same folder,
>> each a different program, and are using 4 different compilers, which are
>> invoked in ad hoc permutations.
>>
>> So your answer is to just put it all in a makefile (I'd like to see what
>> you'd put in it) and type 'make', which magically knows your intentions?
> 
> Putting that into any file at all would be a good start.



You're sort of missing the point. There is no actual project here. This 
is a set of small test programs. The set may grow or shrink.

I may try different compilers, or perhaps the same one with different 
options. Or I might try versions in a different language. Or work with 
intermediate obj or asm files.

I just want to have those invocations as minimal as possible and as 
flexible as possible without adding an extra layer of indirection via 
scripting (and in a syntax that I find impossible) when it's not needed.

When I need scripting, it'll likely be to chain together two more ops in 
order to compile and test.

Actually one use-case, which is to compile A.c to A.exe with one 
compiler, run it, and then compile A.c to A.exe with another compiler, 
would run foul of how make works, which is to not recompile A.c because 
it thinks A.exe is up-to-date.

Now you have to start fighting it, and even then you're never quite sure 
if you have the latest EXE.

(Actually, gcc's habit of naming everything a.exe instead of prog.exe 
helps here, provided you remember it is a.exe. But it also hinders it, 
since a.exe clashes with my A.exe above (Windows being case 
insensitive.) 'A.c' was not specially chosen for my example, it was a 
coincidedence.)

In short I just want to manually type these ad hoc commands from the 
command like I do anything else. I don't appreciate long-winded versions 
or ones which work differently from everything else.




> The situation can be organized very nicely with GNU make.
> 
> 
> compile_xcc = touch $(2)         # fictitious
> compile_gcc = gcc $(1) -o $(2)
> 
> srcs := $(wildcard *.c)
> 
> progs.gcc := $(patsubst %.c,%.gcc,$(srcs))
> progs.xcc := $(patsubst %.c,%.xcc,$(srcs))
> progs := $(progs.gcc) $(progs.xcc)
> 
> %.gcc : %.c; $(call compile_gcc,$<,$@)
> 
> %.xcc : %.c; $(call compile_xcc,$<,$@)
> 
> .PHONY: all clean
> all : $(progs)
> 
> clean : ; rm -f $(progs)
> 
> 
> 
> Now if we type "make", every .c file is built into a .gcc
> and .xcc file.
> 
> We can use "make whatever.gcc" just to update that, if necessary.
> 
> "make clean" removes all the executables.
> 
> "make -n" will show commands without running them.
> 
> Suppose we want the gcc executables in a gcc/ directory,
> and the xcc ones in xcc/. We can make it a bit more complicated,
> and actually make the creation of the directory a dependency.
> Because the timestamps of directories is irrelevant (only their
> existence or absence) we use the "order only prerequisite" feature
> of GNU Make, indicated by the | character.
> 
> 
> 
> compile_xcc = touch $(2)         # fictitious
> compile_gcc = gcc $(1) -o $(2)
> 
> srcs := $(wildcard *.c)
> 
> progs.gcc := $(patsubst %.c,gcc/%,$(srcs))
> progs.xcc := $(patsubst %.c,xcc/%,$(srcs))
> progs := $(progs.gcc) $(progs.xcc)
> 
> gcc/% : %.c; $(call compile_gcc,$<,$@)
> 
> xcc/% : %.c; $(call compile_xcc,$<,$@)
> 
> % : ; mkdir $@
> 
> .PHONY: all clean
> all : $(progs)
> 
> $(progs.gcc) : | gcc
> $(progs.xcc) : | xcc
> 
> clean : ; rm -f $(progs); rmdir xcc gcc
> 
> 
> 
> Example session:
> 
> $ ls
> Makefile  prog.c
> $ make
> mkdir gcc
> gcc prog.c -o gcc/prog
> mkdir xcc
> touch xcc/prog
> $ ls gcc
> prog
> $ ls xcc
> prog
> $ rm -rf gcc
> $ make
> mkdir gcc
> gcc prog.c -o gcc/prog
> $ rm -rf xcc
> $ make
> mkdir xcc
> touch xcc/prog
> $ make clean
> rm -f gcc/prog xcc/prog; rmdir xcc gcc
> 

I'm lost.

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#380800 — Re: Python (Re: iso646.h)

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2024-01-24 15:56 +0000
SubjectRe: Python (Re: iso646.h)
Message-ID<sqasN.52145$U1cc.14513@fx04.iad>
In reply to#380792
Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> writes:
>kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) writes:
>
>> bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>>> On 23/01/2024 19:32, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
>>>> bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>>>>> Presumably everyone knows what AND and OR mean. So
>>>>> why not just use AND and OR?
>>>> 
>>>> Maybe back in the early days of C even a one byte
>>>> mattered?
>>> 
>>> Plenty of languages already existed that used 'and', 'or' and 'not'.
>>
>> I actually know that but it could have mattered
>> to Dennis Ritchie to be as succinct as possible.
>>
>> In the same spirit as UNIX has "ls" not "list", "cp" 
>> not "copy" and "mv" not "move".
>>
>>> My first language did so as well, and was implemented on a smaller 
>>> machine than the first C compiler.
>>> 
>>> If compact code was advantageous, then you have to wonder about the 
>>> considerable amount of punctuation in C.
>>
>> True.
>>
>>>> strlen("AND") is 3 and strlen("&&") is 2.
>>>> So they chose "&&" and then "||" was chosen because
>>>> of symmetry? Just speculation, of course.
>>> 
>>> Why two & and two |? Was '|' even commonly available on keyboards at the 
>>> time? I'm pretty sure 'o' and 'r' were!
>>
>> I really do not know. I never thought of that but
>> it does seem strange especially if one claims
>> that they wanted to save storage.
>
>Back when I was learning Unix and C (late 1970s), the consensus belief
>in my department was that they were simply poor typists. 

It's difficult to type quickly on an ASR-33, I suspect that
would have part of the reason for short commands.   Two
letter commands were common on the burroughs mainframes
in the 60s and 70s and likely on other systems as well.

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#380694 — Re: Python (Re: iso646.h)

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2024-01-23 12:09 -0800
SubjectRe: Python (Re: iso646.h)
Message-ID<87h6j3ak2i.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
In reply to#380691
kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) writes:
> bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>> Presumably everyone knows what AND and OR mean. So 
>> why not just use AND and OR?
>
> Maybe back in the early days of C even a one byte
> mattered? strlen("AND") is 3 and strlen("&&") is 2.
> So they chose "&&" and then "||" was chosen because
> of symmetry? Just speculation, of course.
>
> Dennis Ritchie has said that he regretted the 
> spelling of creat(2) function. Presumably the
> abbreviation was supposed to save one byte of
> storage.

C's predecessor language B had "&" and "|" operators, bitwise "and" and
"or".  It didn't have "&&" or "||".  "&" and "|" were used in
expressions like:

    if (x > 3 & x < 42)

which was reasonably safe because the "<" and ">" operators always yield
0 or 1.

The logical (not bitwise) and short-circuit "&&" and "||" operators were
added in C and appear in the 1974 C manual.  The symbols were a fairly
obvious extension of the existing "& and "|" symbols.

There was probably a fairly strong inclination to use punctation rather
than identifiers for operators.  There's no explicit rule to this
effect, but sizeof (and later _Alignof) are the only exceptions to the
pattern.

(Perl did something interesting.  It has "&&" and "||" operators like
C's, but it also has "and" and "or" keywords, which have the same
semantics but different precedence.)

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Medtronic
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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