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Groups > comp.lang.c > #380602 > unrolled thread

iso646.h

Started byLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
First post2024-01-22 01:51 +0000
Last post2024-01-25 15:02 +0100
Articles 20 on this page of 649 — 20 participants

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  iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-22 01:51 +0000
    Re: iso646.h Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-01-22 02:00 +0000
    Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-21 21:48 -0500
      Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-22 05:23 +0000
    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-22 09:30 +0100
      Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-22 16:24 +0000
        Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-22 20:34 +0000
          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-22 13:22 -0800
            Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-22 22:07 +0000
              Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-22 14:56 -0800
                Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-22 23:44 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-23 00:10 +0000
      Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-22 20:34 +0000
        Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-22 21:32 +0000
        Re: iso646.h Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-01-22 23:08 +0000
          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-22 23:37 +0000
            Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-23 00:12 +0000
            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-23 06:54 +0100
              Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 06:05 +0000
                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 09:34 +0100
                Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 15:43 +0000
        Re: iso646.h Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-01-22 20:23 -0800
        Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-23 06:47 +0100
          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 21:50 +0000
            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 08:59 +0100
        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-23 09:24 +0100
          Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-23 21:30 +0000
            Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-23 22:03 +0000
            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 08:53 +0100
              Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 07:58 -0800
                Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 20:11 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 12:23 -0800
                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-24 21:55 +0100
                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-25 07:22 +0100
                  Re: iso646.h Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-01-24 20:25 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 00:17 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-01-25 00:50 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-25 01:23 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 18:30 -0800
                      Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-25 01:33 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 21:20 +0000
              Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 16:56 +0000
                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 18:07 +0100
                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 18:12 +0100
                  Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 21:08 +0000
            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-24 10:03 +0100
        Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-23 11:54 +0000
        Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 16:32 +0000
          Re: iso646.h Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-01-23 17:21 +0000
            Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-23 21:49 +0000
            Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 21:52 +0000
              Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 14:51 -0800
                Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 23:33 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 16:16 -0800
                    Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 00:39 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 11:53 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 09:15 +0100
              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 09:02 +0100
            C/CPP macro conventions (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 08:25 +0100
              Re: C/CPP macro conventions (was Re: iso646.h) Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 08:25 +0000
                Re: C/CPP macro conventions (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 10:09 +0100
                Re: C/CPP macro conventions (was Re: iso646.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-24 10:13 +0100
                Re: C/CPP macro conventions (was Re: iso646.h) Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-01-25 23:05 +0000
          Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-23 18:34 +0000
            Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-23 18:52 +0000
              Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-23 14:23 -0500
                Re: iso646.h kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-23 20:32 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 21:52 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-23 22:09 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-23 22:37 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 09:10 +0100
                          Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-24 12:24 -0500
                            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 18:38 +0100
                              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 18:42 +0100
                              Re: iso646.h kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-24 17:49 +0000
                                Re: iso646.h kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-24 18:40 +0000
                                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 20:15 +0000
                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-24 22:01 +0100
                              Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 11:52 -0800
                                Re: iso646.h kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-24 20:03 +0000
                            Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 20:14 +0000
                            Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 21:11 +0000
                              Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-25 00:01 -0500
                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 13:43 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-25 14:19 +0100
                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 15:20 +0100
                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-25 16:40 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-25 13:43 +0000
                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 16:11 +0100
                                Re: iso646.h Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-02-03 11:35 -0800
                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 09:09 +0100
                  Unix shell conditionals (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 08:38 +0100
                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-23 21:28 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-23 22:00 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-23 22:33 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-23 23:46 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 14:49 -0800
                  Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-23 19:45 -0500
                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 09:28 +0100
            Python (Re: iso646.h) kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-23 19:32 +0000
              Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-23 19:59 +0000
                Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-23 20:18 +0000
                  Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2024-01-24 07:49 -0700
                    Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-24 15:07 +0000
                    Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-01-24 15:17 +0000
                      Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-24 15:46 +0000
                        Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-01-24 16:27 +0000
                          Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-24 19:55 +0000
                            Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-01-24 20:57 +0000
                        Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 20:17 +0000
                          Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-25 12:13 +0000
                            Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-25 14:57 +0000
                              Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 16:17 +0100
                              Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-25 15:52 +0000
                                Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-25 16:14 +0000
                                Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-25 11:27 -0800
                            Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-25 18:06 +0000
                              Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-25 19:35 +0000
                    Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-24 15:56 +0000
              Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 12:09 -0800
                Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 22:00 +0000
                  Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-01-27 22:12 +0000
                    Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-28 00:29 +0000
              Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 21:55 +0000
                Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-23 22:47 +0000
                  Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 15:35 -0800
                    Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 00:41 +0000
                      Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 03:13 +0000
                  Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 23:37 +0000
                    Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-01-26 05:48 -0800
                  Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-23 23:51 +0000
                    Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 16:35 -0800
                      Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 16:40 -0800
                  Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-24 00:06 +0000
                    Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-24 12:37 +0100
                  Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-01-25 22:55 +0000
              Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-01-24 13:30 +0000
            Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 12:13 -0800
              Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 22:01 +0000
                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-23 22:45 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 23:39 +0000
                Re: iso646.h kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-23 22:54 +0000
                Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 15:10 -0800
                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 23:40 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 16:27 -0800
                      Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 00:47 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 17:32 -0800
                          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 02:42 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-23 23:56 -0500
                          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 05:24 +0000
                            Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 21:43 -0800
                              Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 06:35 +0000
                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-24 14:14 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 20:19 +0000
                                Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 07:34 -0800
                      Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-23 23:26 -0500
                        Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 20:53 -0800
                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 09:41 +0100
                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 08:15 -0800
                    Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 19:32 +0000
              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 09:06 +0100
                Re: iso646.h Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-01-24 14:17 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 08:30 -0800
                    Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 21:00 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-24 22:13 +0000
                        Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 00:44 +0000
                          Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-25 01:37 +0000
                            Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-01-25 02:20 +0000
                              Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 18:23 -0800
                              Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-25 11:58 +0000
                            Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 02:49 +0000
                              Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 19:09 -0800
                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 17:44 +0100
                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-24 17:27 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 20:21 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 12:26 -0800
                    Re: iso646.h Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-01-24 20:31 +0000
                      Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 00:53 +0000
                        Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-25 01:24 +0000
                          Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 18:21 -0800
                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-24 22:09 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 23:20 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 15:56 -0800
            Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 12:20 +0000
              Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-24 13:00 +0000
              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 14:22 +0100
              Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-24 14:54 +0100
                Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 08:27 -0800
                  Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 20:50 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 14:01 +0100
                      Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-25 13:53 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 16:48 +0100
                      Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-25 09:57 -0800
                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 21:07 +0100
                          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 20:18 +0000
                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-26 15:59 +0100
                              Re: Compose Key (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-26 21:22 +0000
                                Re: Compose Key (was Re: iso646.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-27 16:17 +0100
                                  Re: Compose Key (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-27 21:28 +0000
                                  Re: Compose Key (was Re: iso646.h) Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-01-27 22:38 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 20:08 +0000
                          Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-25 20:30 +0000
                          Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-25 21:13 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 20:06 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-25 21:04 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-25 21:16 +0000
                          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 22:01 +0000
                            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-26 02:11 +0100
                              Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-26 01:19 +0000
                        Operators (Algol 68) (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-26 02:08 +0100
                  Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-25 00:52 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 17:07 -0800
                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-25 07:48 +0100
                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 14:07 +0100
                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-25 14:35 +0100
                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 16:53 +0100
                          Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-25 17:11 +0100
                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 21:11 +0100
                              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-26 02:21 +0100
                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-26 17:01 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-26 18:31 +0100
                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-26 19:59 +0100
                                      Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-26 12:27 -0800
                                        Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-26 22:01 +0100
                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-26 22:30 +0100
                                        Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-26 20:22 -0500
                                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-27 16:43 +0100
                                          Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-28 20:14 +0100
                                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 14:09 +0100
                                    Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-26 20:10 -0500
                                      Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-27 16:44 +0100
                                        Re: Functional Programming (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-27 20:49 +0000
                                          Re: Functional Programming (was Re: iso646.h) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 00:22 +0000
                                            Re: Functional Programming (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-28 01:18 +0000
                                              Re: Functional Programming (was Re: iso646.h) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 02:06 +0000
                                          Re: Functional Programming (was Re: iso646.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-28 12:35 +0100
                                            Re: Functional Programming (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-28 20:40 +0000
                                              Re: Functional Programming (was Re: iso646.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 09:52 +0100
                                                Re: Functional Programming (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-02 05:13 +0000
                                                  Re: Functional Programming (was Re: iso646.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-02 09:21 +0100
                                        Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-28 01:31 -0500
                                          Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-28 12:40 +0100
                      Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-26 21:16 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-26 22:46 +0100
                          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-26 22:41 +0000
                            Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-26 15:41 -0800
                              Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-26 23:51 +0000
                                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-27 01:17 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-27 16:25 +0000
                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-28 18:46 +0100
                          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-26 23:52 +0000
                            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-27 01:27 +0100
                              Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-27 00:38 +0000
                                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-27 11:09 +0100
                                  Re: Localization (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-27 20:58 +0000
                                    Re: Localization (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-28 15:57 +0100
                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-27 16:58 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-27 17:26 +0000
                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-27 18:53 +0100
                                      Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-27 19:39 +0000
                                      Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 17:31 -0800
                                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-28 12:50 +0100
                                    Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-27 20:59 +0000
                                      Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 17:34 -0800
                                        Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-28 01:50 +0000
                                          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 17:53 -0800
                                        Re: iso646.h "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 18:47 -0800
                                      Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-28 12:53 +0100
                                        Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-28 20:43 +0000
                                          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 14:49 -0800
                                            Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-29 00:03 +0000
                                              Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-29 01:24 +0000
                                              Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 17:48 -0800
                                                Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-29 02:17 +0000
                                                  Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 17:06 +0100
                                              Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 17:05 +0100
                                                Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-29 23:56 +0000
                                          Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 13:35 +0100
                                            Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-29 16:23 +0000
                                              Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 18:40 +0100
                                Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 16:33 -0800
                              Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-27 00:42 +0000
                                Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 03:16 +0000
                              Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-27 17:24 +0000
                                Re: Java (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-27 21:04 +0000
                                  [OT] Re: Java (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-28 17:42 +0100
                                    Re: [OT] Re: Java (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-28 20:44 +0000
                                [OT] Usefulness of OO/C++/features (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-28 17:18 +0100
                            Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 03:11 +0000
                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 03:24 +0000
                            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-27 11:43 +0100
                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 11:13 +0000
                                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-27 12:53 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 20:17 +0000
                                    Re: iso646.h Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-01-27 21:40 +0000
                                      Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-28 00:31 +0000
                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-28 18:22 +0100
                                      Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 22:55 +0000
                                      Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 15:00 -0800
                                        Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-29 12:09 -0500
                                        Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-29 19:33 +0100
                                          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-29 12:48 -0800
                                          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-29 23:51 +0000
                                        Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-29 12:10 -0500
                                          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-29 12:53 -0800
                                Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-27 21:06 +0000
                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 00:35 +0000
                                    Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-28 01:22 +0000
                                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 17:26 -0800
                                      Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 01:59 +0000
                                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-28 13:00 +0100
                                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 16:09 +0000
                                            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-28 18:06 +0100
                                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-28 19:24 +0100
                                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 19:49 +0000
                                                Re: Binary Pipelines (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-28 20:48 +0000
                                                Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 14:54 -0800
                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 17:18 +0100
                                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-29 18:47 +0000
                                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 21:06 +0100
                                                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-29 13:00 -0800
                                                      Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 18:29 +0000
                                                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-30 20:23 +0100
                                                        Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 12:06 -0800
                                                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 21:04 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-31 06:04 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 08:59 +0100
                                                                Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 12:53 +0200
                                                                  Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 14:21 +0100
                                                            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 14:02 +0100
                                                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 14:05 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 14:35 +0100
                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 11:30 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 18:35 +0100
                                                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 22:41 +0100
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 01:59 +0100
                                                    Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-29 23:55 +0000
                                                Re: iso646.h Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-01-29 12:10 -0800
                                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-29 22:14 +0000
                                                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-29 22:24 +0000
                                                    Re: iso646.h Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-01-29 23:27 -0800
                                                      Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 09:13 +0000
                                                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-30 14:03 +0100
                                                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 15:49 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-30 16:06 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-01-30 16:12 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 16:33 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-30 16:54 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-01-30 19:39 +0000
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-31 06:12 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-31 01:39 -0500
                                                                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:20 +0000
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 14:47 +0100
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-01-31 19:43 +0000
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 12:14 -0800
                                                                        Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-31 20:25 +0000
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 13:26 -0800
                                                                            Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-02-01 01:23 +0000
                                                                              Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 01:34 +0000
                                                                                Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-02-01 16:28 +0000
                                                                        Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 23:25 +0000
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 15:34 -0800
                                                                            Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 01:58 +0000
                                                                              Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 18:27 -0800
                                                                              Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 14:52 +0000
                                                                                Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 16:01 +0000
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-02 01:13 +0000
                                                                            Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-02 02:15 +0000
                                                                              Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-02 05:08 +0000
                                                                                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-02 15:28 +0000
                                                                            Re: iso646.h Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-02-02 16:50 +0000
                                                                        Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-02-01 00:52 -0500
                                                                      Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-02-01 00:45 -0500
                                                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-30 17:25 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-30 16:55 +0000
                                                                Creation era of stdin, stdout, stderr (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-30 19:06 +0100
                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-30 20:29 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-30 20:24 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 12:55 -0800
                                                                  Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-30 21:42 +0000
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-31 06:10 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h dave_thompson_2@comcast.net - 2024-02-26 04:20 -0500
                                                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 17:34 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-30 18:43 +0000
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-30 20:54 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-31 06:07 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 14:45 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:20 +0000
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 08:38 -0800
                                                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 19:05 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-02 00:08 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 02:10 +0100
                                                                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-02 02:12 +0000
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 03:42 +0100
                                                                        Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-02 03:47 +0000
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 20:02 -0800
                                                              Re: iso646.h dave_thompson_2@comcast.net - 2024-02-26 04:18 -0500
                                                        Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-30 15:00 +0000
                                                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 15:21 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-30 15:53 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-31 06:03 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 15:28 +0200
                                                          Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-30 15:30 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-30 15:54 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-30 16:10 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-30 17:49 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-30 18:22 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-30 18:44 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-30 20:46 +0100
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 12:22 +0100
                                                                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 14:58 +0100
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 15:39 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 18:39 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-01-30 19:45 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 11:59 -0800
                                                                  Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-30 16:16 -0500
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 12:35 +0100
                                                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 15:09 +0100
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 15:46 +0100
                                                                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 19:11 +0100
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 10:35 -0800
                                                                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 11:34 +0100
                                                                              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 17:24 +0100
                                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 22:46 +0100
                                                                      Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:29 +0000
                                                                        Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 08:41 -0800
                                                                          Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 17:06 +0000
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-31 06:00 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:15 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 11:50 -0800
                                                                Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-31 06:02 +0000
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 12:43 +0100
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 13:58 +0200
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 13:35 +0100
                                                                        Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 15:10 +0200
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 18:19 +0100
                                                                            Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 19:53 +0200
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-01 23:49 +0000
                                                                        Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:17 +0000
                                                                        Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-31 11:20 -0500
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 18:06 +0100
                                                                            Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-01 23:52 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 08:30 -0800
                                                                  Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:16 +0000
                                                        Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-31 06:06 +0000
                                                        Re: iso646.h Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-01-30 23:18 -0800
                                                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 08:36 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 15:21 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:22 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 19:15 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 16:25 +0100
                                                                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:58 +0000
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 17:17 +0100
                                                                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 17:05 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 18:26 +0200
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 18:27 +0200
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 19:01 +0100
                                                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 19:24 +0100
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 02:18 +0100
                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 19:20 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 02:48 +0100
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-02 07:16 +0000
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 13:17 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 16:04 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 08:33 -0800
                                                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 23:48 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 16:49 -0800
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 01:10 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 17:36 -0800
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 02:23 +0000
                                                                        Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 18:30 -0800
                                                                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 00:49 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-02-01 05:24 -0800
                                                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 15:07 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 12:18 -0800
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 23:57 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 13:34 +0100
                                                                Re: iso646.h Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-02-03 11:27 -0800
                                                          Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 12:43 +0200
                                                            Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 12:15 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 13:49 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 17:03 +0200
                                                                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:49 +0000
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 18:04 +0200
                                                                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 16:54 +0000
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 09:16 -0800
                                                                        Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 17:21 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 15:53 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 17:29 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 19:36 +0200
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 19:47 +0100
                                                            Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:25 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 16:33 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 17:42 +0200
                                                                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:58 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 17:05 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 18:18 +0200
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 17:47 +0100
                                                                      Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 17:20 +0000
                                                                        [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 20:11 +0100
                                                                          Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 19:28 +0000
                                                                            Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 13:12 +0100
                                                                              Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-02-01 12:50 +0000
                                                                                Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-02 04:57 +0000
                                                                                  Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-02 07:18 +0000
                                                                                    Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-03 01:44 +0000
                                                                                  Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-02 09:34 +0100
                                                                                  Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-02-02 10:57 +0000
                                                                                    Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-03 01:43 +0000
                                                                                      Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-02-03 12:47 -0800
                                                                                        Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-04 22:36 +0000
                                                                                          Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-02-04 15:26 -0800
                                                                                            Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-05 01:49 +0000
                                                                                              Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-02-04 18:08 -0800
                                                                              Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 15:04 +0000
                                                                                Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 16:16 +0100
                                                                          Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-01-31 20:16 +0000
                                                                            Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 22:22 +0200
                                                                              Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 20:50 +0000
                                                                                Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 23:00 +0200
                                                                                  Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-01-31 21:20 +0000
                                                                                    Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 13:27 +0100
                                                                            Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 13:16 +0100
                                                                              Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-02-01 13:21 +0000
                                                                          Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 11:45 +0100
                                                                            Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 13:03 +0100
                                                                            Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-02 04:58 +0000
                                                                          Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-02-01 05:22 -0800
                                                                            [meta] Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 15:38 +0100
                                                                            Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-02 05:00 +0000
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 19:22 +0100
                                                            Re: iso646.h Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-02-01 05:17 -0800
                                                            Re: Alternative Shells (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-02 05:04 +0000
                                                        Re: iso646.h Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-01-31 23:36 +0000
                                                          Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-02-01 00:21 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 00:47 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-02-01 01:29 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 14:42 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 15:50 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-02-01 17:06 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 23:02 +0100
                                                                      Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-02-01 22:56 +0000
                                                                        Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 03:13 +0100
                                                                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-02 09:44 +0100
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-02 01:08 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 15:35 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-02-01 15:32 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 12:23 -0800
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 03:26 +0100
                                                            Re: iso646.h Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-02-02 23:41 +0000
                                                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 01:53 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 14:45 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 14:57 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 16:47 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 16:22 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 15:55 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 15:41 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 17:15 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 19:36 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-02-01 19:50 +0000
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-02-01 20:03 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 23:06 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 22:38 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-02 09:51 +0100
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-02 13:28 +0000
                                                                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-02 15:47 +0100
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-02 15:38 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-02-02 23:38 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-02-02 23:59 +0000
                                                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 05:24 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 14:02 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 13:26 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 16:07 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 15:50 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 16:30 +0000
                                                                      Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-02-01 18:03 +0000
                                                                        Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 12:09 -0800
                                                                          Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 20:59 +0000
                                                                          Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-02-01 21:25 +0000
                                                                            Re: iso646.h "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 13:34 -0800
                                                                              Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 22:25 +0000
                                                                                Re: iso646.h "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 14:40 -0800
                                                                                Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 15:31 -0800
                                                                            Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 22:24 +0000
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 12:41 +0100
                                                                            Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-02-02 08:39 -0800
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 12:33 +0100
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-02-02 21:40 +0000
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-03 05:14 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 16:48 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 16:19 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 14:53 +0000
                                          Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-28 18:02 +0100
                Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 19:33 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-24 19:45 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-24 19:48 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 00:30 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-25 03:56 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 05:25 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-25 07:02 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 14:46 +0100
                  Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 14:29 +0100
                    Re: iso646.h kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-25 15:08 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-25 16:18 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-25 11:20 -0800
                        Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-26 12:17 +0000
                          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-26 07:56 -0800
                            Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-26 23:03 +0000
                          Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-26 17:06 +0100
                            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-26 18:59 +0100
                              Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-26 20:18 +0100
                                Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-26 23:15 +0000
                                  Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-26 15:55 -0800
                                  Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-27 17:07 +0100
                                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 17:34 -0800
                                      Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-28 13:02 +0100
                                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-27 01:12 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-26 20:43 -0500
                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-27 11:21 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 03:05 +0000
                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-27 11:34 +0100
                                      Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 11:02 +0000
                                        Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-27 12:36 +0100
                                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-29 18:32 +0000
                                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 19:48 +0100
                                              Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-29 19:35 +0000
                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 21:10 +0100
                                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-29 22:27 +0000
                                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-30 10:05 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-27 17:46 +0100
                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-28 20:16 +0100
                                      Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 17:20 +0100
                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-25 10:48 -0800
          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 21:51 +0000
            Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 19:48 +0000
              Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-24 19:52 +0000
                Re: iso646.h "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 13:00 -0800
                Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 00:26 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-25 01:25 +0000
              Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 12:09 -0800
                Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-25 03:46 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 19:59 -0800
                    Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-25 05:39 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-25 09:55 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 15:19 +0100
                        Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-25 07:26 -0800
                          Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-26 17:12 +0100
                      Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-25 16:22 +0000
              Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 15:02 +0100

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#381086

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2024-01-27 16:33 -0800
Message-ID<87sf2i1els.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
In reply to#381029
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2024 01:27:55 +0100, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>
>> On 27.01.2024 00:52, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 26 Jan 2024 22:46:25 +0100, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Also the stream hierarchy offers design and implementation paths that
>>>> you just don't have with printf().
>>> 
>>> And that you don’t need, frankly.
>> 
>> Don't be so fast with your judgment. Of course we use it to elegantly
>> and scaleably solve tasks in C++.
>
> But not localization, which is an important issue. printf-style formatting 
> allows rearrangement of parts of a message to suit grammar purposes, C++-
> style output operators do not.

I'm reasonably sure you saw my previous followup, in which I pointed out
that (a) ISO C does not support reordering arguments to printf, and (b)
in any language, you can reorder arguments by building a string that you
then send to output.

C++ also lets you define output operators for any type, something that's
much more difficult with printf-style output.

[...]

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Medtronic
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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#381030

Frombart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2024-01-27 00:42 +0000
Message-ID<up1jif$32uhj$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#381028
On 27/01/2024 00:27, Janis Papanagnou wrote:

> Java ...C++ ..
> But that's anyway all off-topic here.

JP finally realises that, after 100 posts of ramblings about anything but C.


 From 'bart cc32n.c' thread:

JP:
 >No, you are wrong, I'm not the owner of this piece of... code.

 >If someone makes a big heap of fecal in a public park, would
 >you think I'm the owner? I'd rather sue the one who did that;
 >because the park (or Usenet) is common property, and the heap
 >of fecal (or that code) is not.

What a thoroughly unpleasant piece of work.

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#381036

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2024-01-27 03:16 +0000
Message-ID<up1shr$37v5a$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#381030
On 27/01/2024 00:42, bart wrote:
> On 27/01/2024 00:27, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> 
>> Java ...C++ ..
>> But that's anyway all off-topic here.
> 
> JP finally realises that, after 100 posts of ramblings about anything 
> but C.
> 
> 
>  From 'bart cc32n.c' thread:
> 
> JP:
>  >No, you are wrong, I'm not the owner of this piece of... code.
> 
>  >If someone makes a big heap of fecal in a public park, would
>  >you think I'm the owner? I'd rather sue the one who did that;
>  >because the park (or Usenet) is common property, and the heap
>  >of fecal (or that code) is not.
> 
> What a thoroughly unpleasant piece of work.
> 
Yes, it's not nice. It's hard to make software go viral and it isn't
something I have achieved myself, despite quite a bit of trying. But
the reason is not always that the code is inherently worthless.

-- 
Check out Basic Algorithms and my other books:
https://www.lulu.com/spotlight/bgy1mm

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#381057

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2024-01-27 17:24 +0000
Message-ID<f%atN.183055$yEgf.134580@fx09.iad>
In reply to#381028
Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> writes:
>On 27.01.2024 00:52, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Jan 2024 22:46:25 +0100, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>> 
>>> Also the stream hierarchy offers
>>> design and implementation paths that you just don't have with printf().
>> 
>> And that you don’t need, frankly.
>
>Don't be so fast with your judgment. Of course we use it to elegantly
>and scaleably solve tasks in C++.
>
>> Java manages just fine with printf-style formatting and “toString()” methods.
>
>I tried to explain in my other post that it's not just about a format
>(or a string-sequencing member function). But I'm sure one must be
>deeper in the topic or have experienced (besides any supposed issues)
>the sophisticated possibilities that C++ offers to support good design.

As someone who as programmed daily in C++ since 1989, usually
in performance sensitive code, I've never found the C++ input
and output operators useful.  The run-time cost both in space
and time is far more than the *printf formatting functions,
and they're less flexible when the formatting changes based,
e.g., on locale.

>
>Java (as a newer language) has also some advantages, but was in many
>respects far behind C++ (IMO).

Wow, that's a strong statement.   What led you to hold that opinion?

Java, as a language, was rather well designed.  The run-time costs,
however, precluded the use of Java in most of the projects that I've
worked on since Java was introduced.

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#381071 — Re: Java (was Re: iso646.h)

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2024-01-27 21:04 +0000
SubjectRe: Java (was Re: iso646.h)
Message-ID<up3r4r$3hbk7$9@dont-email.me>
In reply to#381057
On Sat, 27 Jan 2024 17:24:27 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote:

> Java, as a language, was rather well designed.

It tried to be simpler than C++. If you compare the respective sizes of 
the core language manuals, you would have to agree it failed miserably.

And the cost of that “simplicity” was the leaving out of useful features 
like operator overloads for user types, unsigned integers, typedefs and 
generics (later added back in a hacky way).

Here’s a Java feature that might surprise some people: in C++, you use the 
word “new” to denote that a class instance is being allocated on the heap. 
A declaration without that word indicates that the instance is being 
allocated on the stack.

In Java, as in Python, all class instances are allocated on the heap. 
Therefore the word “new” becomes superfluous. And so Python gets rid of 
it, reducing class instantiation to what looks like a function call on the 
class name.

Yet Java keeps the requirement to say “new”. Why?

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#381126 — [OT] Re: Java (was Re: iso646.h)

FromJanis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com>
Date2024-01-28 17:42 +0100
Subject[OT] Re: Java (was Re: iso646.h)
Message-ID<up605m$ogg$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#381071
On 27.01.2024 22:04, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> [...]
> In Java, as in Python, all class instances are allocated on the heap. 
> Therefore the word “new” becomes superfluous. And so Python gets rid of 
> it, reducing class instantiation to what looks like a function call on the 
> class name.
> 
> Yet Java keeps the requirement to say “new”. Why?

If the "Why?" refers to the word "keeps" then the answer seems
obvious; compatibility, to not break existing code.
If you're asking why "in the first place" they introduced it; I
suppose to differentiate it from simple types, and to indicate
that such objects are subject to the garbage collector (when
getting unused).
Maybe it's useful to know how Simula (first OO language, thus
probably a paragon for other language designs) did it. Here you
had simple types (integer, real, character, etc.), the special
type 'text' (a string class but used also like a primitive one),
and the complex class types. The latter had an own declaration
syntax 'ref(class)name' and own ref-assignments ':-' as opposed
to value-assignments ':=', own comparison operators, and they
are subject to garbage collection. This appears to some degree
to be similar to Java.

But personally I don't mind the 'new' keyword in Java anyway.
Languages shall make it possible to produce readable code; with
Java I can do that (and probably even better than in C), so that
is not what prevents me from choosing Java.

Janis

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#381149 — Re: [OT] Re: Java (was Re: iso646.h)

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2024-01-28 20:44 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Re: Java (was Re: iso646.h)
Message-ID<up6ebt$2vq9$8@dont-email.me>
In reply to#381126
On Sun, 28 Jan 2024 17:42:29 +0100, Janis Papanagnou wrote:

> On 27.01.2024 22:04, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> 
>> In Java, as in Python, all class instances are allocated on the heap.
>> Therefore the word “new” becomes superfluous. And so Python gets rid of
>> it, reducing class instantiation to what looks like a function call on
>> the class name.
>> 
>> Yet Java keeps the requirement to say “new”. Why?
> 
> If the "Why?" refers to the word "keeps" then the answer seems obvious;
> compatibility, to not break existing code.
> If you're asking why "in the first place" they introduced it; I suppose
> to differentiate it from simple types, and to indicate that such objects
> are subject to the garbage collector (when getting unused).

For simple types, you don’t need to use the type name at all, to create an 
instance of the type. So there would be no opportunity to use or not use 
the type name. Hence the question about “new” is irrelevant in this case.

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#381125 — [OT] Usefulness of OO/C++/features (was Re: iso646.h)

FromJanis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com>
Date2024-01-28 17:18 +0100
Subject[OT] Usefulness of OO/C++/features (was Re: iso646.h)
Message-ID<up5up9$gsd$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#381057
On 27.01.2024 18:24, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> writes:
> 
> As someone who as programmed daily in C++ since 1989, usually

I started C++ around the same time, actually since C++'s beginning,
so probably only few years earlier. But today I use C++ only in my
private context since, professionally, I'm not programming any more.

> in performance sensitive code, I've never found the C++ input
> and output operators useful. 

I'm sure whether one finds a language (or features of a language)
useful certainly depends on various factors; education, the area
of work, the specific company (including its culture), and own
personality (own experiences, and personal background, where from
one comes).

This is why I think it makes no sense to start a dispute here.
Either you have experienced the advantages, or you haven't, or only
partly.

> The run-time cost both in space
> and time is far more than the *printf formatting functions,
> and they're less flexible when the formatting changes based,
> e.g., on locale.

Runtime costs and memory space considerations had been relevant
in my DSP assembler deep-space-satellite-communication project
(in the late 1980's).

In my C++ projects it was irrelevant whether language feature A
was 10% faster or slower compared to language feature B. There
were other factors that influenced performance; like complexity
of the algorithmic solutions. And there were other requirements
that had precedence anyway; like robust and extensible designs.
Amongst many other things.

So all I can do, if you like - but I don't know whether it helps
you, since your experiences and background certainly differs -,
is to illustrate it with a small project where specifically the
feature of discussion helped to a clear and extensible design,
simply to use and integrate; a flexibility and robust solution.

In C++ I implemented an Application Management Interface - that was
already 30 years ago, before Java provided some library like that -
that made it possible to control any object instance in a software
component by (informally written) "interface.register(item)", and
you could then interrogate or change state of such registered items
asynchronously during runtime by exchanging the de-/linearized data
through some text oriented IPC channel. There was no need to adjust
application logic and no functional dependencies. It was transparent
WRT the type of object (it could be, say, a primitive 'int' counter
or a complex 'Car' object); items of any complexity and type could
be controlled through any stream based communication interface. The
only precondition was that the object class provides operators '<<'
and '>>' for de-/serialization (and these operators were anyway
defined in our contexts, for obvious reasons), and (IIRC) that it
had the property "controllable" (an interface derivation). Thanks
to OO principles and (beside other features) C++'s '<<' operator.

(I don't want to imagine such functionality with printf and all
it's impact to the rest of the program system.)

> 
>>
>> Java (as a newer language) has also some advantages, but was in many
>> respects far behind C++ (IMO).
> 
> Wow, that's a strong statement.   What led you to hold that opinion?

Experience with many programming languages (including Java), and
a pair of open eyes, and an open mind.

> 
> Java, as a language, was rather well designed. 

(It would have never occurred to me to to make such a statement.)

> The run-time costs,
> however, precluded the use of Java in most of the projects that I've
> worked on since Java was introduced.

This is just one observation. But, yes.

Janis

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#381035

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2024-01-27 03:11 +0000
Message-ID<up1s95$37v5a$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#381023
On 26/01/2024 23:52, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Jan 2024 22:46:25 +0100, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> 
>> Also the stream hierarchy offers
>> design and implementation paths that you just don't have with printf().
> 
> And that you don’t need, frankly. Java manages just fine with printf-style
> formatting and “toString()” methods.
 >
The problem is that the stream hierarchy both serialises (puts data into 
a form with no hierarchy which can be stored in raw memory or in backing 
store), and creates human readable output. Whilst to an extent you can 
do both at the same time, the goals are different.
-- 
Check out Basic Algorithms and my other books:
https://www.lulu.com/spotlight/bgy1mm

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#381037

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2024-01-27 03:24 +0000
Message-ID<up1t0r$37v5a$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#381017
On 26/01/2024 21:46, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> On 26.01.2024 22:16, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 14:07:25 +0100, David Brown wrote:
>>
>>> "cout << one() << two() << three();"
>>
>> Those C++ operators for I/O are a brain-dead idea. C-style printf formats
>> actually work better.
> 
> Well, no. There's a reason for using operators. In OO design you define
> classes, and you can define  ostream operators <<  for your classes so
> that you can use these like elementary types in an output stream. This
> means you can output (and input) arbitrary complex classes. You'll also
> get strong type-safety. And whatnot. Also the stream hierarchy offers
> design and implementation paths that you just don't have with printf().
> 
> In case you haven't done OO design & programming there's unfortunately
> not an easy way to explain or go into the necessary details here. I can
> just suggest to get into that topic; it's worth, IMO.
> 
> The printf() method is quite old; with simple types it's a more compact
> form of formula. You have some cryptic characters that shorten the
> format string (whereas with C++ manipulators and other features you'll
> have more flexibility, extensibility, but pay that with a bulkier form).
> 
It's hard to think of anything that can be passed to standard outut 
other than integers, floating point values, and strings. So you only 
need three atomic operations.
You can then buld complex objects consisting of integers, floats and 
strings on top of those three basic operations. But the stream itself 
should be locked down and not open to derivation.
-- 
Check out Basic Algorithms and my other books:
https://www.lulu.com/spotlight/bgy1mm

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#381042

FromJanis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com>
Date2024-01-27 11:43 +0100
Message-ID<up2mor$3bjgb$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#381037
On 27.01.2024 04:24, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>>
> It's hard to think of anything that can be passed to standard outut
> other than integers, floating point values, and strings. So you only
> need three atomic operations.
> You can then buld complex objects consisting of integers, floats and
> strings on top of those three basic operations. But the stream itself
> should be locked down and not open to derivation.

I'm not sure where you're coming from here, what you mean by "locked
down", and why it would be a goal to reach. I used various ostreams
(output, strings, etc.) to an advantage in designing flexible usable
algorithms without duplicating code or anything. (I don't know where
your view comes from, but maybe it helps to take an existing library
based on OO design, maybe even STL (which has functional concepts as
well) and inspect what can be done with stream (or other) hierarchies
of types. - But maybe its just as I've written upthread; if you have
not experienced that yourself it's probably hard to understand where
and what the advantages are.)

Janis

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#381044

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2024-01-27 11:13 +0000
Message-ID<up2ogd$3bs86$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#381042
On 27/01/2024 10:43, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> On 27.01.2024 04:24, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>>>
>> It's hard to think of anything that can be passed to standard outut
>> other than integers, floating point values, and strings. So you only
>> need three atomic operations.
>> You can then buld complex objects consisting of integers, floats and
>> strings on top of those three basic operations. But the stream itself
>> should be locked down and not open to derivation.
> 
> I'm not sure where you're coming from here, what you mean by "locked
> down", and why it would be a goal to reach. I used various ostreams
> (output, strings, etc.) to an advantage in designing flexible usable
> algorithms without duplicating code or anything. (I don't know where
> your view comes from, but maybe it helps to take an existing library
> based on OO design, maybe even STL (which has functional concepts as
> well) and inspect what can be done with stream (or other) hierarchies
> of types. - But maybe its just as I've written upthread; if you have
> not experienced that yourself it's probably hard to understand where
> and what the advantages are.)
> 
> Janis
> 
What I am saying is that standard output can take integers, floats and 
strings.
So the stream should have some facilites for writing integers (leading 
zeros, signs, maybe commas separators for thousands), some for floats 
(rounding, precision, scientific notation etc), some for strings (not 
much you can do here other than just pass the raw characters).

Now when we've got those facilites and we are happy with them, that's 
it. We don't allow further derivation of the stream to change the basic 
behaviour. Now people might say "booleans, you've forgotten booleans, 
surely when you pass booleans it should print "true" or "false". No. 
We'll handle that at a higher level and pass "true" and "false" as strings.

The disadvantage is that you are locked into an integer/float/string 
paradigm. Amd it's not OO. But the advantage is that it will be stable.
-- 
Check out Basic Algorithms and my other books:
https://www.lulu.com/spotlight/bgy1mm

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#381046

FromJanis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com>
Date2024-01-27 12:53 +0100
Message-ID<up2qse$3c81p$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#381044
On 27.01.2024 12:13, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>>
> What I am saying is that standard output can take integers, floats and
> strings.

Oh!? That doesn't match with any output model I have in mind. (It only
matches if I'm coming from the printf() functionality as basis of all.)

Standard output can take, technically, anything. We're passing binary
and "text" across the standard channels (and may leave open whether an
UTF-8 encoded text is to be considered "binary" in some context).

On one abstraction level you can say I want to consider only non-binary
readable output, but then it's all text (int and float and bool are just
output with one of their textual standard representations).

> So the stream should have some facilites for writing integers (leading
> zeros, signs, maybe commas separators for thousands), some for floats
> (rounding, precision, scientific notation etc), some for strings (not
> much you can do here other than just pass the raw characters).

From an OO perspective we may also say the type Integer, the type Float,
etc. shall provide means to create a textual standard representation,
with options to control the form of the standard representation. Is the
form of the standard representation a property of the data type or of a
[not really] "generic" procedure that has hard-coded support for just
a hand full of predefined primitive types?

> 
> Now when we've got those facilites and we are happy with them, that's
> it. We don't allow further derivation of the stream to change the basic
> behaviour. Now people might say "booleans, you've forgotten booleans,
> surely when you pass booleans it should print "true" or "false". No.
> We'll handle that at a higher level and pass "true" and "false" as strings.
> 
> The disadvantage is that you are locked into an integer/float/string
> paradigm. Amd it's not OO. But the advantage is that it will be stable.

The OO methods are also stable, but they are also flexible. The concept
makes it possible to extend it to any data type. (I've done that many
times. And thinking about how that would have looked like with non-OO
and only printf() methods is a horror. But, as said; it's probably
necessary to experience that self if it's not understandable from the
explanations alone.)

Janis

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#381065

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2024-01-27 20:17 +0000
Message-ID<up3ode$3h68j$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#381046
On 27/01/2024 11:53, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> On 27.01.2024 12:13, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>>>
>> What I am saying is that standard output can take integers, floats and
>> strings.
> 
> Oh!? That doesn't match with any output model I have in mind. (It only
> matches if I'm coming from the printf() functionality as basis of all.)
> 
Yes, exactly.
Standard output is any sequence of ASCII characters. printf() is the 
main C interface to that, and supports integers, floats and strings, to 
a first approximation.
 >
> Standard output can take, technically, anything. We're passing binary
> and "text" across the standard channels (and may leave open whether an
> UTF-8 encoded text is to be considered "binary" in some context).
> 
> On one abstraction level you can say I want to consider only non-binary
> readable output, but then it's all text (int and float and bool are just
> output with one of their textual standard representations).
> 
You can of course encode any data format as any other as long as you can 
write enough. But standard output can't take images or audio, for example.
>> So the stream should have some facilites for writing integers (leading
>> zeros, signs, maybe commas separators for thousands), some for floats
>> (rounding, precision, scientific notation etc), some for strings (not
>> much you can do here other than just pass the raw characters).
> 
>  From an OO perspective we may also say the type Integer, the type Float,
> etc. shall provide means to create a textual standard representation,
> with options to control the form of the standard representation. Is the
> form of the standard representation a property of the data type or of a
> [not really] "generic" procedure that has hard-coded support for just
> a hand full of predefined primitive types?
> 
>>
>> Now when we've got those facilites and we are happy with them, that's
>> it. We don't allow further derivation of the stream to change the basic
>> behaviour. Now people might say "booleans, you've forgotten booleans,
>> surely when you pass booleans it should print "true" or "false". No.
>> We'll handle that at a higher level and pass "true" and "false" as strings.
>>
>> The disadvantage is that you are locked into an integer/float/string
>> paradigm. Amd it's not OO. But the advantage is that it will be stable.
> 
> The OO methods are also stable, but they are also flexible. The concept
> makes it possible to extend it to any data type. (I've done that many
> times. And thinking about how that would have looked like with non-OO
> and only printf() methods is a horror. But, as said; it's probably
> necessary to experience that self if it's not understandable from the
> explanations alone.)
> 
The OO method is to allow the stream to be extended. So, in one common
system, we might have a "decimal" stream which takes floats and outputs in
the format 123.456. Then we could derive a different type of stream from
that which outputs floats as 1.23456e2.
So
x = 123.456
stream.write(x)

would have different results depending on what stream we are passed. 
It's flexible but not very stable, and the 123.456 output has no special 
status.

Nw it's not inherently, necessarily the case that the data you can pass 
to standard output is integers, floats and strings. You could devise a 
program which operates on different data entirely, like Huffman codes. 
But in practise the data will be build of those atoms, and so it makes 
sense for the interface to standard output to handle them, then be 
lokced down, so it can't be overidden and everything always works in the 
same way.


-- 
Check out Basic Algorithms and my other books:
https://www.lulu.com/spotlight/bgy1mm

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#381076

FromRichard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid>
Date2024-01-27 21:40 +0000
Message-ID<up3t8f$3hqqb$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#381065
On 27/01/2024 20:17, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> You can of course encode any data format as any other as long as you can 
> write enough. But standard output can't take images or audio, for example.

What?

stdout is perfectly happy with anything, eg:

$ cat a.out | xxd | head -1
00000000: cffa edfe 0c00 0001 0000 0000 0200 0000  ................

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#381085

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2024-01-28 00:31 +0000
Message-ID<up478e$3j7tk$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#381076
On Sat, 27 Jan 2024 21:40:31 +0000, Richard Harnden wrote:

> $ cat a.out | xxd | head -1 00000000: cffa edfe 0c00 0001 0000 0000 0200
> 0000  ................

UUOC!

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#381130

FromJanis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com>
Date2024-01-28 18:22 +0100
Message-ID<up62gn$15e5$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#381065
On 27.01.2024 21:17, Malcolm McLean wrote:

> Standard output is any sequence of ASCII characters.

Nonsense.

> printf() is the
> main C interface to that, and supports integers, floats and strings, to
> a first approximation.

It's not an approximation; printf() is _restricted_ to these types (and
a few more variants of these few basic types, to be correct).

In an OO context you would not unnecessarily restrict yourself. (Unless
you don't know better.)

> You can of course encode any data format as any other as long as you can
> write enough. But standard output can't take images or audio, for example.

Standard output is an I/O channel; I can send to it non-text data like
the ones you mention. (Just imagine you couldn't send UTF-8 text data.)

> The OO method is to allow the stream to be extended. So, in one common
> system, we might have a "decimal" stream which takes floats and outputs in
> the format 123.456. Then we could derive a different type of stream from
> that which outputs floats as 1.23456e2. [...]

Nonsense. - You seem to have never really learned or understood OO or
what streams in C++ actually are.

Janis

> [...]

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#381154

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2024-01-28 22:55 +0000
Message-ID<up6m08$49oq$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#381130
On 28/01/2024 17:22, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> On 27.01.2024 21:17, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> 
>> Standard output is any sequence of ASCII characters.
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
>> printf() is the
>> main C interface to that, and supports integers, floats and strings, to
>> a first approximation.
> 
> It's not an approximation; printf() is _restricted_ to these types (and
> a few more variants of these few basic types, to be correct).
> 
> In an OO context you would not unnecessarily restrict yourself. (Unless
> you don't know better.)
> 
>> You can of course encode any data format as any other as long as you can
>> write enough. But standard output can't take images or audio, for example.
> 
> Standard output is an I/O channel; I can send to it non-text data like
> the ones you mention. (Just imagine you couldn't send UTF-8 text data.)
> 
>> The OO method is to allow the stream to be extended. So, in one common
>> system, we might have a "decimal" stream which takes floats and outputs in
>> the format 123.456. Then we could derive a different type of stream from
>> that which outputs floats as 1.23456e2. [...]
> 
> Nonsense. - You seem to have never really learned or understood OO or
> what streams in C++ actually are.
> 
We're talking about the OO approach generally. Not C++.
That is one approach. Our base stream takes floats and produces a stream 
of decimals in the format 123.456. We then decide that we don't like 
that and write a derived class which uses scientific notation, 1.23456e2.
We can then toggle output between deciml and scientific mode by passing 
either a base or a derived stream to an output function.

That one way of implementing OO streams and anyone with even a basic 
knowledge of OO should have recognised.

-- 
Check out Basic Algorithms and my other books:
https://www.lulu.com/spotlight/bgy1mm

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#381155

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2024-01-28 15:00 -0800
Message-ID<87cytl6p20.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
In reply to#381130
Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> writes:
> On 27.01.2024 21:17, Malcolm McLean wrote:
[...]
>> printf() is the
>> main C interface to that, and supports integers, floats and strings, to
>> a first approximation.
>
> It's not an approximation; printf() is _restricted_ to these types (and
> a few more variants of these few basic types, to be correct).

printf also supports pointer values with "%p".  And it support single
characters, which are not strings.

strings of cousre absolutely do not have to be ASCII.  Using printf to
print data with embedded null bytes is tricky -- but of course printf is
not the only interface.  We can print arbitrary data with putchar,
fwrite, etc.

And in environments like POSIX that don't distinguish between text and
binary output streams, it can be perfectly sensible (though not 100%
portable) to send binary data to stdout.

[...]

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Medtronic
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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#381180

FromJames Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu>
Date2024-01-29 12:09 -0500
Message-ID<up8m55$hsfc$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#381155
On 1/28/24 18:00, Keith Thompson wrote:
...
> And in environments like POSIX that don't distinguish between text and
> binary output streams, it can be perfectly sensible (though not 100%
> portable) to send binary data to stdout.

I'm sure you know about the following, but for Malcolm's benefit, I want
to expand on that comment. In other environments, the fact that stdout
is initially a text stream means that freopen() would have to be used to
change it to a binary stream - but it is otherwise no more of a problem
than in a POSIX environment.

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