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Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator?

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On 12/03/2017 11:06 AM, bartc wrote:
> On 02/12/2017 20:16, Ian Collins wrote:
>> On 12/03/2017 08:42 AM, bartc wrote:
>>> On 02/12/2017 16:09, David Brown wrote:
>>>
>>>> But C function calls are as easy as it gets.
>>>
>>> And apparently you DO think that! The docs for a typical C function are
>>> for the benefit of someone wanting to use the function FROM C. Any other
>>> information essential for using that function from elsewhere is not
>>> included.
>>
>> The platform ABI tells you all you need to know.
> 
> About what, the call convention? Which on 32-bit Windows is variable anyway.
> 
> It doesn't say anything about types that C code has invented and where
> the definitions rely on compiling a bunch of C header code.
> 
> Take this function from SDL:
> 
> extern DECLSPEC int SDLCALL SDL_SetWindowModalFor(SDL_Window *
> modal_window, SDL_Window * parent_window);
> 
> If you're calling it from C, then it's straightforward: you include the
> requisite headers, define the appropriate variables of the right types,
> and call.
> 
>   From another language however, you can't do that: you have to
> painstakingly track down the definitions of each type (and usually they
> will be structs consisting of a bunch of other types). You need to
> establish the layout and alignment of those structs so as to create
> exact duplicates. And if you're unlucky, there will be a mess of
> conditional code so that even that is not clear.

So in C you can happily call something without understanding it, but 
from from another language you have to understand what you are calling? 
I see, very interesting.

> Even by this point, so you still have the obstacle of using the library,
> which can be tricky even using C, but now you might have a buggy
> interface to contend with too. And any example code will be in C.

Some code has bugs?  I didn't know that.

> And this is just one library; it contains 540 C header files containing
> stuff to duplicate. GTK contains 600. MSVC has 2100 headers in total.
> 
> You were saying about the platform ABI telling me all I need? Sure!

I'm saying the ABI + understanding what you are doing is all you need.

> This stuff is always going to be a big job, but C and the way C is
> typically written makes it much harder than necessary.

So that's why it has become the near universal interface language?  I've 
often wondered why.

> It doesn't help that people who have obviously never done anything like
> this keep saying it's so simple.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I have done this.  I'll admit that I've had 
the good judgment (and a little luck) never to have to do son Windows, 
but I written native interface wrappers for PHP.

-- 
Ian

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Some kind of contextual modulo operator? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-29 10:41 -0800
  Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-11-29 11:12 -0800
    Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-29 19:22 +0000
      Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-29 19:43 +0000
        Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-11-29 12:33 -0800
          Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-29 23:22 +0000
            Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-11-29 20:53 -0800
              Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-30 12:17 +0000
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-12-01 15:08 +0000
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-12-01 07:31 -0800
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-12-01 16:32 +0000
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-12-01 17:07 +0000
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-12-01 09:15 -0800
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-12-01 18:14 +0000
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-12-01 19:03 +0000
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-12-01 20:54 +0000
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-12-01 12:09 -0800
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-12-01 21:56 +0000
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-12-01 23:11 +0000
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-12-01 15:16 -0800
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-12-02 17:09 +0100
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-12-02 19:42 +0000
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-12-03 09:16 +1300
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-12-02 22:06 +0000
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-12-03 11:20 +1300
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-12-03 00:01 +0000
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-12-03 13:55 +1300
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-12-03 02:14 +0000
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-12-03 16:13 +1300
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-12-03 12:28 +0000
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-12-03 14:26 +0000
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-12-04 10:49 +1300
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-12-04 10:38 +1300
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-12-03 23:00 +0000
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-12-04 12:10 +1300
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-12-03 23:33 +0000
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-12-04 13:18 +1300
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-12-04 12:19 +0000
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-12-05 07:58 +1300
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-12-04 00:30 +0100
                Packed structs (was Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator?) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-12-04 15:02 +0000
                Re: Packed structs (was Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-12-04 16:34 +0100
                Re: Packed structs (was Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator?) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-12-04 09:23 -0800
                Re: Packed structs (was Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator?) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-12-04 18:31 +0000
                Re: Packed structs (was Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator?) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-12-04 15:37 -0800
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-12-04 08:39 -0800
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2017-12-03 18:13 -0800
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-12-03 14:50 +1300
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-12-04 15:00 +0000
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-12-04 15:53 +0000
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-12-04 18:26 +0000
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-12-04 10:34 -0800
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-12-03 19:40 +0100
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-12-03 11:35 -0800
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-12-04 14:59 +0000
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-12-01 08:56 -0800
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-12-01 08:58 -0800
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-12-01 18:16 +0000
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-12-01 10:28 -0800
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-12-01 20:19 +0100
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-12-01 22:22 +0000
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-12-01 07:49 -0800
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-12-01 16:54 +0000
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-12-01 09:34 -0800
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-12-01 18:48 +0000
                Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-12-01 11:27 -0800
      Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-29 12:17 -0800
        Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-30 12:27 +0000
          Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-30 06:11 -0800
    Re: Some kind of contextual modulo operator? "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-29 15:02 -0500
  Some kind of contextual modulo operator? mcheung63@gmail.com - 2017-12-08 23:20 -0800

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