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Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists

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Schmidt explained :
> Am 25.05.2012 18:12, schrieb Tom Shelton:
>
>> And, yes if ms kills the legacy desktop -
>> then a "windows forms" app will stop working.
>>
>> But, as usuall you miss the point.
> Ok, let's see who's missing the point.
>
>> It's about choices and options. And, leanring VB6 leaves you none.
>>  Excpet to be stuck in the legacy desktop, 32-bit world.
>
> So, if MS *is* killing the classic-desktop over the next years,
> then you would have to rewrite your VB6-App... In the same
> way, as you would have to rewrite your .NET 2.0 Winforms-App
> (not much in a Winforms-App that "maps" directly to
>   Metro-WPF/WinRT or HTML5/JS, is there?).
>

Most of the .net framework is availabe in a metro app.  The main stuff 
that changes are mostly file system access, network stuff, and of 
course, p/invoke.

So, if you do a app in the correct way - you will not be rewriting the 
entire app.  Mainly the interface, and replacing the bit of 
functionality that isn't availabe to you in metro.

> So, why start with .NET 2.0 (your recommendation) at all,
> when the VB6-Coding is easier done, and has less deployment-
> problems?
>

LOL.. How do you know there are less deployment problems?  If the .net 
2.0 or above framework is present - than there is no problem.  It's an 
xcopy deploy.  And, again - the chances are that it is there.

And the coding is no harder than in vb6.  It's in fact almost identical 
if you turn off option strict.

>> My recomendation was actually not to use any VB.
> But you do realize, that this group is a VB-group?
>

So?

>> But, learning vb.net is clearly going to be better alternative
>> to a language whose toolset is unsupported and dead in the market.
> As long as "the market" (the markets platform) is the Windows-
> Desktop, then VB6 "is still in it" - very much alive and
> kickin, as long as this markets platform (Win32-API and COM)
> is a given (and this will be the case until MS pulls the plug,
> and starts with the same restrictions also on x86-Hardware,
> as we see it done currently - only for the ARM-target).
>
> And as for "dead in the market" (if you really want to go there),
> .NET 2.0 + Winforms already *is* dead - an early .NET-adopter
> *will* have to rewrite his deprecated .NET 2.0 GUI-Applications
> for the entirely different animal WPF.
>

Again, your missing the point.  Yes, they will have to rewrite the gui 
- and maybe the whole app if they were stupid about how it was 
structured...

I would whole heartedly suggest taht they just write the thing using 
wpf from the begining - if they could be assured of at least a .net 3.0 
environment. But, the goal was:

1) to learn the language
2) learn the framework
3) minimize the possiblity of having to deploy the framework.

Personally, if I was the OP - I would just get with the IT people and 
find out what is part of the standard image.  And, then either do some 
other platform if no .net (and that other would NOT be vb6) or target 
the latest version they support.  But, by just targeting 2.0 they are 
pretty well assured that it will be there.

> So, MS has "done it again" - Code-Investments destroyed -
> now one is "encouraged" (and you yourself among the
> marketeers) to "rewrite stuff again", to fit the shiny
> new WinRT/WPF-paradigm.
>

I don't have to re-write hardely anything...  So, not sure what your 
talking about. Most of my stuff will work unchanged - other than the 
UI.  I don't tend to write monolithic apps.

> And how long will *that* last might I ask... when there's
> already an alternative way offered by MS themself
> ("written in huge letters on the wall", so to say) -> HTML5/JS...
>

LOL.. That is pretty limited in metro.  Most serious apps are going to 
be C++/C#/VB.NET + WPF.

> So, .NET 2.0 + Winforms is dead

Has been for a long time.  In fact, Winforms has been in maintenance 
mode since .net 3.0.

>  - Code-Investments (you
> strongly encouraged us to do over the last years) are
> blown to pieces in this special .NET-camp, dejavu again...

LOL...  What a load of bs.  Some inteface changes - yes.  But, almost 
all of my code will go straight to metro.  Because most of my logic is 
in their own libraries...  And most of the .net framework is available 
in winrt.

> So, if you ask me, I see the same thing happen in a few
> years, with code-investments nowadays done into .NET/WPF
> (when MS will switch entirely over to the new upcoming
>   star HTML5/JS).
>

They are not switching entirely to that.  Please - stop exagerating.  
There is absolutely no indication that anything of the sort will 
happen.

> But yes, VB6-users will have to switch too

Who's the too?  I don't have to switch to anything.

> at some point in
> time (over the next 5 years) - but they can take a good
> look in the next 2 years, where the MS-journey takes the
> "adventurous" (as yourself). VB.classic-users will perhaps
> port those of their Applications which worth it, to HTML5/JS
> directly, using the better and better becoming tools which will
> evolve around that *platformindependent* paradigm - and they
> will finally have ported only *once* - whereas the ".NET shops"
> (if those follow along your path of thinking), will have ported
> their VB6-Apps 2 times more:
> 1. from VB6 to .NET Winforms
> 2. from .NET Winforms to .NET WPF(+WinRT)
> 3. from .NET WPF/WinRT to HTML5/JS finally
>

Wow.  I thought you were smarter than that.  Why do you feel the need 
to exagerate.  .NET is still as much a part of WinRT - there are some 
changes yes - but, for the most part, things will just work.  The main 
porting will be you gui logic - if you havent' already adopted wpf 
(it's been around for a # of years already).

> I hope you get it now, even when you have a slight disadvantage
> in understanding (because you're not self-employed, you just
> receive your monthly paychecks) - so you perhaps never had to
> spend money yourself for these (IMO) wasted investments
> (into development-tools and the time into not that easily
>   portable code-bases).
>

Execept you are completely blowing the situation out of proportion.

>> A year to learn html5/js?  You must mean in depth expertise -
> Of course in depth, what else?
>
> I see Browsers (in their latest, much faster and more capable
> incarnations) as a new kind of (platform-independent) "Runtime" -
> finally and nowadays working fast enough even on all kind
> of different mobile-devices.
>
> A Runtime which is not distributed in "a Dll" (or multiple Dlls),
> but as a "hosting-process" (along with Dlls). A Host, which is
> offering an empty "Window" (an empty "Form") - but one you can
> "interact with"... the developer then responsible (as for any
> "empty classic VB-Form"), to bring life into it, using Controls
> or Widgets (a lot of them already built into the "Browser-Runtime", 
> implemented in C/C++) ... + a glue language (JS) which currently
> runs already faster than VB6-PCode.
> Not *all* that much different to the concept we used over the
> last 15 years - it's only the loading-process of the "application-
> code" and the (GUI)resources (done over sockets instead using the
> FileSystem) which differs, but that one is not all that difficult
> to understand and adapt to - and it has advantages too, because
> you get machine-crossing RemoteProcedureCall-capabilities this
> way "for free".
>
>
> [usefulness of lambdas]
>
> You gave a poor example again, since it can be
> replicated in less lines of code in VB6:
>

Holy crap... are you purposefully being dense?  It wasn't supposed to 
be anything but a small example of how lambda's work.  Not a canonical 
example of when you would use them...  For cripes sake, I could do the 
same thing you did -  and would for such a trivial case.

<snip>

> And it is even more maintenance-friendly, since
> you have to introduce a new "MathOp" only in the
> Enum and with one additional line in the Select Case
> construct - whereas your example would require changes
> in three places.
>
> The VB-example has (furthermore) the advantage, to
> work not only with integers, but with any numeric
> type - and if you want to restirct it to only one
> certain allowed type, you could do so of course.
>

LOL.. yeah, by using a variant.  yuck!  I can do the same in C# - using 
object.  I just chose not to for a TRIVIAL example.

> Also your .NET example needs more memory, because
> you introduced a Dictionary-Instance quite unnecessarily.
>
> There are better lambda-examples out there

Of course there are.  That wasn't the point of the example.  It's not 
like I have time to spend hours writing tivial little apps for news 
groups.

>  - but this
> may serve as an example to what I said earlier -
> most of your advertised .NET-features serve (for a
> mid-level programmer as yourself) only as a vehicle
> "to feel better" - their usage at such a skill-level
> is mostly questionable and often inefficient.
>

You take a trivial example, and then extrapolate this crap?

> [simple ListBox-triggered MediaPlayer-example]
>> There you go - your nasty code made working in .net.
>
> "Nasty" is a matter of taste - I find also your revised
> example still "too wordy" for mine...
>

Turn of option strict, and it's even closer.  Yes, the event handeling 
is different - but, of course just like in VB6 - you don't type that.

-- 
Tom Shelton

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VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Sandwich <liam.whan@gmail.com> - 2012-05-19 22:10 -0700
  Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> - 2012-05-20 10:24 +0100
  Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-20 09:41 -0400
  Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Auric__" <not.my.real@email.address> - 2012-05-20 19:27 +0000
    Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Sandwich <liam.whan@gmail.com> - 2012-05-20 19:06 -0700
      Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-20 23:32 -0400
        Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Sandwich <liam.whan@gmail.com> - 2012-05-20 22:05 -0700
      Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2012-05-23 01:37 +1000
        Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-22 13:24 -0400
          Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-22 11:30 -0600
            Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-22 14:03 -0400
              Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-22 12:15 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-22 15:05 -0400
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-22 14:01 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-22 17:29 -0400
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-22 17:13 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-23 09:10 -0400
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-23 10:24 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-22 14:37 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-25 10:55 -0400
            Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-22 14:38 -0400
              Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-22 12:47 -0600
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            Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-24 10:07 -0400
            Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> - 2012-05-24 16:07 +0100
              Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-24 09:57 -0600
              Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2012-05-25 18:39 +1000
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                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2012-05-27 23:07 +1000
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> - 2012-05-27 16:44 +0100
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists ralph <nt_consulting64@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-27 17:12 -0500
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> - 2012-05-30 07:04 +0100
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists ralph <nt_consulting64@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-30 02:36 -0500
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> - 2012-05-31 08:54 +0100
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists ralph <nt_consulting64@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-31 10:33 -0500
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2012-05-30 23:19 +1000
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists ralph <nt_consulting64@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-30 14:09 -0500
        Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists GS <gs@somewhere.net> - 2012-05-25 13:44 -0400
          Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists -mhd <not_real@invalid.com> - 2012-05-25 17:47 -0400
            Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists GS <gs@somewhere.net> - 2012-05-25 19:51 -0400
      Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-22 11:09 -0600
        Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> - 2012-05-23 13:07 +0100
          Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-23 10:14 -0600
            Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Schmidt <sss@online.de> - 2012-05-24 20:38 +0200
              Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-24 15:46 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> - 2012-05-25 06:52 +0100
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Schmidt <sss@online.de> - 2012-05-25 11:14 +0200
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "DaveO" <djo@dial.pipex.com> - 2012-05-25 10:57 +0100
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Schmidt <sss@online.de> - 2012-05-25 13:36 +0200
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-25 09:25 -0400
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-25 10:12 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-25 12:27 -0400
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-25 14:22 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Schmidt <sss@online.de> - 2012-05-26 18:38 +0200
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-26 14:12 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Henning" <computer_hero@coldmail.com> - 2012-05-26 23:31 +0200
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-26 18:07 -0400
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-26 16:50 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-26 20:53 -0400
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                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-29 19:14 -0400
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists ralph <nt_consulting64@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-29 18:25 -0500
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> - 2012-05-30 06:51 +0100

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