Groups > comp.lang.basic.visual.misc > #1099

Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists

From	Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
Subject	Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists
Date	2012-05-22 14:01 -0600
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<jpgrb4$eqb$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
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Mayayana submitted this idea :
>> Get this through your skull - as far as windows is concerned - the
>> win32 api as you know it is deprecated.  It is there and maintained 
>> for backwards compatability.
>> 
>
>   That's simply not true. .Net is a wrapper around Win32.
> WinRT is a wrapper around Win32.
>

And?  Comming from a vb user, that is pretty hilarious that you would 
have issues with that.

> http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2011/Sep-15.html
> http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/sasha/archive/2011/09/15/winrt-and-net-in-windows-8.aspx
>
>   Win32 is not in any sense deprecated. It's restricted.

Only on ARM - and MS is not encouraging it's use at all.  My point is 
that win32 is deprecated in that it is not likely to get a lot of 
further enhancement and that it's not going to be the official primary 
developement api for 3rd parties.

That's not to say it won't be around for a long time - of course it 
will.  But, that doesn't mean MS want's you to use it.  And so, in that 
sense it is deprecated.  Like VB6.  The runtime is still shiped - but, 
MS doesn't want you using it.

> Read the news about Mozilla's complaints. They specifically
> point out that IE (and other MS software) is using the
> Windows API in Metro but that MS will not allow Firefox to
> access it; 

The complaint is about the legacy desktop on arm - Windows RT.  MS is 
not allowing any 3rd party software to run there.  They are free to do 
so on x86.  And their Metro version will be allowed to run just fine.  
I'm not sure where Firefox would benifit from direct api access since - 
well, they don't use the same rendering engine that ie uses.  And there 
is nothing stoping them from accessing it.  In fact, they are already 
working on a metro version.

> and that they cannot produce a competitive browser
> without that API access.

Only on arm.  And why?  Firefox doesn't use the trident engine...  What 
else would they need that wouldn't be provided by winrt?

>  Apparently the Mozilla people
> thought MS would grant them an exception, but MS is no longer
> under anti-trust scrutiny and they seem to have made clear
> that there will be 2 classes of software going forward: The
> native Microsoft programs (Office, IE, etc.) and everyone
> else's sandboxed trinkets: WinRT HTAs. 

First off, metro apps are NOT trinkets - that kind of talk is what 
makes me think this conversation is pointless.  Sandboxed - yep.  It's 
called security.  But, that doesn't mean that apps can't communicate or 
interact.  It's just done differently (contracts).


> It's true, of course,
> that WinRT is connected with battery issues, etc., but Metro
> is also being put into Win8 as a wrapper GUI -- as the primary
> GUI, even when there is no "swipe 'n smudge" functionality
> on a given PC. And no one gets the option to choose which
> native software they want to run. (Mozilla would presumably
> write a lean version of Firefox for Metro and some people might
> want the choice to risk their battery life. But they won't get
> the choice.) Surely that's writing on the wall?
>


I think you are confusing Windows 8 and Windows RT (windows on arm).  
Windows 8 on x86 will allow them to have a native client - that you can 
download and install just like any other software.  You won't get it 
through the windows marketplace - that will be the metro version, but 
they can happily provide one for x86.  It's different on windows rt. MS 
is not allowing ANY 3rd party legacy desktop apps to run.

>> As for your comments about C++/WinRT - huh?  You do realize, that 
>> you can use native code libraries in winrt?  You can't use the win32 
>> api, but nothing stops you from creating your own...
>> 
>
>    I don't see the logic there. Create my own what? My
> own kernel? My own hardware interface APIs? I hope
> you'll make that public if you produce such a thing. It
> sounds like fun. :) 

Your own native code libraries, you know like mozilla's rendering 
engine, etd.

-- 
Tom Shelton

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VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Sandwich <liam.whan@gmail.com> - 2012-05-19 22:10 -0700
  Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> - 2012-05-20 10:24 +0100
  Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-20 09:41 -0400
  Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Auric__" <not.my.real@email.address> - 2012-05-20 19:27 +0000
    Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Sandwich <liam.whan@gmail.com> - 2012-05-20 19:06 -0700
      Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-20 23:32 -0400
        Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Sandwich <liam.whan@gmail.com> - 2012-05-20 22:05 -0700
      Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2012-05-23 01:37 +1000
        Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-22 13:24 -0400
          Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-22 11:30 -0600
            Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-22 14:03 -0400
              Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-22 12:15 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-22 15:05 -0400
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-22 14:01 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-22 17:29 -0400
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-22 17:13 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-23 09:10 -0400
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-23 10:24 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-22 14:37 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-25 10:55 -0400
            Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-22 14:38 -0400
              Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-22 12:47 -0600
          Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2012-05-24 23:44 +1000
            Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-24 10:07 -0400
            Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> - 2012-05-24 16:07 +0100
              Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-24 09:57 -0600
              Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2012-05-25 18:39 +1000
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> - 2012-05-25 11:23 +0100
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2012-05-27 23:07 +1000
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> - 2012-05-27 16:44 +0100
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists ralph <nt_consulting64@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-27 17:12 -0500
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> - 2012-05-30 07:04 +0100
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists ralph <nt_consulting64@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-30 02:36 -0500
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> - 2012-05-31 08:54 +0100
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists ralph <nt_consulting64@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-31 10:33 -0500
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2012-05-30 23:19 +1000
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists ralph <nt_consulting64@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-30 14:09 -0500
        Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists GS <gs@somewhere.net> - 2012-05-25 13:44 -0400
          Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists -mhd <not_real@invalid.com> - 2012-05-25 17:47 -0400
            Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists GS <gs@somewhere.net> - 2012-05-25 19:51 -0400
      Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-22 11:09 -0600
        Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> - 2012-05-23 13:07 +0100
          Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-23 10:14 -0600
            Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Schmidt <sss@online.de> - 2012-05-24 20:38 +0200
              Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-24 15:46 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> - 2012-05-25 06:52 +0100
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Schmidt <sss@online.de> - 2012-05-25 11:14 +0200
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "DaveO" <djo@dial.pipex.com> - 2012-05-25 10:57 +0100
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Schmidt <sss@online.de> - 2012-05-25 13:36 +0200
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-25 09:25 -0400
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-25 10:12 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-25 12:27 -0400
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-25 14:22 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Schmidt <sss@online.de> - 2012-05-26 18:38 +0200
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-26 14:12 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Henning" <computer_hero@coldmail.com> - 2012-05-26 23:31 +0200
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-26 18:07 -0400
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-26 16:50 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-26 20:53 -0400
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-26 20:31 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-27 09:49 -0400
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Karl E. Peterson <karl@exmvps.org> - 2012-05-29 12:50 -0700
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-29 19:14 -0400
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists ralph <nt_consulting64@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-29 18:25 -0500
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> - 2012-05-30 06:51 +0100

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