Groups > comp.lang.basic.visual.misc > #1128

Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists

From	Schmidt <sss@online.de>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
Subject	Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists
Date	2012-05-26 18:38 +0200
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<jpr0uo$1uj$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink)
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Am 25.05.2012 18:12, schrieb Tom Shelton:

> And, yes if ms kills the legacy desktop -
> then a "windows forms" app will stop working.
>
> But, as usuall you miss the point.
Ok, let's see who's missing the point.

> It's about choices and options. And, leanring VB6 leaves you none.
>  Excpet to be stuck in the legacy desktop, 32-bit world.

So, if MS *is* killing the classic-desktop over the next years,
then you would have to rewrite your VB6-App... In the same
way, as you would have to rewrite your .NET 2.0 Winforms-App
(not much in a Winforms-App that "maps" directly to
  Metro-WPF/WinRT or HTML5/JS, is there?).

So, why start with .NET 2.0 (your recommendation) at all,
when the VB6-Coding is easier done, and has less deployment-
problems?

> My recomendation was actually not to use any VB.
But you do realize, that this group is a VB-group?

> But, learning vb.net is clearly going to be better alternative
> to a language whose toolset is unsupported and dead in the market.
As long as "the market" (the markets platform) is the Windows-
Desktop, then VB6 "is still in it" - very much alive and
kickin, as long as this markets platform (Win32-API and COM)
is a given (and this will be the case until MS pulls the plug,
and starts with the same restrictions also on x86-Hardware,
as we see it done currently - only for the ARM-target).

And as for "dead in the market" (if you really want to go there),
.NET 2.0 + Winforms already *is* dead - an early .NET-adopter
*will* have to rewrite his deprecated .NET 2.0 GUI-Applications
for the entirely different animal WPF.

So, MS has "done it again" - Code-Investments destroyed -
now one is "encouraged" (and you yourself among the
marketeers) to "rewrite stuff again", to fit the shiny
new WinRT/WPF-paradigm.

And how long will *that* last might I ask... when there's
already an alternative way offered by MS themself
("written in huge letters on the wall", so to say) -> HTML5/JS...

So, .NET 2.0 + Winforms is dead - Code-Investments (you
strongly encouraged us to do over the last years) are
blown to pieces in this special .NET-camp, dejavu again...
So, if you ask me, I see the same thing happen in a few
years, with code-investments nowadays done into .NET/WPF
(when MS will switch entirely over to the new upcoming
  star HTML5/JS).

But yes, VB6-users will have to switch too at some point in
time (over the next 5 years) - but they can take a good
look in the next 2 years, where the MS-journey takes the
"adventurous" (as yourself). VB.classic-users will perhaps
port those of their Applications which worth it, to HTML5/JS
directly, using the better and better becoming tools which will
evolve around that *platformindependent* paradigm - and they
will finally have ported only *once* - whereas the ".NET shops"
(if those follow along your path of thinking), will have ported
their VB6-Apps 2 times more:
1. from VB6 to .NET Winforms
2. from .NET Winforms to .NET WPF(+WinRT)
3. from .NET WPF/WinRT to HTML5/JS finally

I hope you get it now, even when you have a slight disadvantage
in understanding (because you're not self-employed, you just
receive your monthly paychecks) - so you perhaps never had to
spend money yourself for these (IMO) wasted investments
(into development-tools and the time into not that easily
  portable code-bases).

> A year to learn html5/js?  You must mean in depth expertise -
Of course in depth, what else?

I see Browsers (in their latest, much faster and more capable
incarnations) as a new kind of (platform-independent) "Runtime" -
finally and nowadays working fast enough even on all kind
of different mobile-devices.

A Runtime which is not distributed in "a Dll" (or multiple Dlls),
but as a "hosting-process" (along with Dlls). A Host, which is
offering an empty "Window" (an empty "Form") - but one you can
"interact with"... the developer then responsible (as for any
"empty classic VB-Form"), to bring life into it, using Controls
or Widgets (a lot of them already built into the "Browser-Runtime", 
implemented in C/C++) ... + a glue language (JS) which currently
runs already faster than VB6-PCode.
Not *all* that much different to the concept we used over the
last 15 years - it's only the loading-process of the "application-
code" and the (GUI)resources (done over sockets instead using the
FileSystem) which differs, but that one is not all that difficult
to understand and adapt to - and it has advantages too, because
you get machine-crossing RemoteProcedureCall-capabilities this
way "for free".


[usefulness of lambdas]

You gave a poor example again, since it can be
replicated in less lines of code in VB6:

'-----------------------------
Private Enum MathOp
   Add
   Subtract
   Multiply
   Divide
End Enum

Private Sub Form_Load()
   Debug.Print Calculate(1, 1, MathOp.Add)
   Debug.Print Calculate(10, 5, MathOp.Subtract)
   Debug.Print Calculate(5, 5, MathOp.Multiply)
   Debug.Print Calculate(20, 10, MathOp.Divide)
End Sub

Private Function Calculate(P1, P2, ByVal Op As MathOp)
   Select Case Op
     Case MathOp.Add:      Calculate = P1 + P2
     Case MathOp.Subtract: Calculate = P1 - P2
     Case MathOp.Multiply: Calculate = P1 * P2
     Case MathOp.Divide:   Calculate = P1 / P2
   End Select
End Function
'---------------------------------

And it is even more maintenance-friendly, since
you have to introduce a new "MathOp" only in the
Enum and with one additional line in the Select Case
construct - whereas your example would require changes
in three places.

The VB-example has (furthermore) the advantage, to
work not only with integers, but with any numeric
type - and if you want to restirct it to only one
certain allowed type, you could do so of course.

Also your .NET example needs more memory, because
you introduced a Dictionary-Instance quite unnecessarily.

There are better lambda-examples out there - but this
may serve as an example to what I said earlier -
most of your advertised .NET-features serve (for a
mid-level programmer as yourself) only as a vehicle
"to feel better" - their usage at such a skill-level
is mostly questionable and often inefficient.


[simple ListBox-triggered MediaPlayer-example]
> There you go - your nasty code made working in .net.

"Nasty" is a matter of taste - I find also your revised
example still "too wordy" for mine...

May the OP decide, <shrug>...

Olaf

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VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Sandwich <liam.whan@gmail.com> - 2012-05-19 22:10 -0700
  Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> - 2012-05-20 10:24 +0100
  Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-20 09:41 -0400
  Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Auric__" <not.my.real@email.address> - 2012-05-20 19:27 +0000
    Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Sandwich <liam.whan@gmail.com> - 2012-05-20 19:06 -0700
      Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-20 23:32 -0400
        Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Sandwich <liam.whan@gmail.com> - 2012-05-20 22:05 -0700
      Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2012-05-23 01:37 +1000
        Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-22 13:24 -0400
          Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-22 11:30 -0600
            Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-22 14:03 -0400
              Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-22 12:15 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-22 15:05 -0400
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-22 14:01 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-22 17:29 -0400
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-22 17:13 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-23 09:10 -0400
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-23 10:24 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-22 14:37 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-25 10:55 -0400
            Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-22 14:38 -0400
              Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-22 12:47 -0600
          Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2012-05-24 23:44 +1000
            Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-24 10:07 -0400
            Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> - 2012-05-24 16:07 +0100
              Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-24 09:57 -0600
              Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2012-05-25 18:39 +1000
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> - 2012-05-25 11:23 +0100
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2012-05-27 23:07 +1000
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> - 2012-05-27 16:44 +0100
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists ralph <nt_consulting64@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-27 17:12 -0500
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> - 2012-05-30 07:04 +0100
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists ralph <nt_consulting64@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-30 02:36 -0500
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> - 2012-05-31 08:54 +0100
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists ralph <nt_consulting64@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-31 10:33 -0500
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2012-05-30 23:19 +1000
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists ralph <nt_consulting64@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-30 14:09 -0500
        Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists GS <gs@somewhere.net> - 2012-05-25 13:44 -0400
          Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists -mhd <not_real@invalid.com> - 2012-05-25 17:47 -0400
            Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists GS <gs@somewhere.net> - 2012-05-25 19:51 -0400
      Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-22 11:09 -0600
        Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> - 2012-05-23 13:07 +0100
          Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-23 10:14 -0600
            Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Schmidt <sss@online.de> - 2012-05-24 20:38 +0200
              Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-24 15:46 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> - 2012-05-25 06:52 +0100
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Schmidt <sss@online.de> - 2012-05-25 11:14 +0200
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "DaveO" <djo@dial.pipex.com> - 2012-05-25 10:57 +0100
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Schmidt <sss@online.de> - 2012-05-25 13:36 +0200
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-25 09:25 -0400
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-25 10:12 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-25 12:27 -0400
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-25 14:22 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Schmidt <sss@online.de> - 2012-05-26 18:38 +0200
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-26 14:12 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Henning" <computer_hero@coldmail.com> - 2012-05-26 23:31 +0200
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-26 18:07 -0400
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-26 16:50 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-26 20:53 -0400
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Tom Shelton <tom_shelton@comcast.invalid> - 2012-05-26 20:31 -0600
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-27 09:49 -0400
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists Karl E. Peterson <karl@exmvps.org> - 2012-05-29 12:50 -0700
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2012-05-29 19:14 -0400
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists ralph <nt_consulting64@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-29 18:25 -0500
                Re: VB.net (2010) Beginner Question: Directory Lists "Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> - 2012-05-30 06:51 +0100

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