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Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.

From scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Subject Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
References <114nji9$li5u$1@news.xmission.com> <114q9lp$1b9f1$1@dont-email.me> <114qam6$1b9f1$2@dont-email.me> <114r9vj$1o8k3$1@kst.eternal-september.org> <114svdu$289pl$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID <zTncS.5177$bZ8b.3401@fx01.iad> (permalink)
Organization UsenetServer - www.usenetserver.com
Date 2026-08-04 15:50 +0000

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Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> writes:
>On Mon, 03 Aug 2026 16:58:39 -0700, Keith Thompson wrote:
>
>> Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> writes:
>> [...]
>>> For what it's worth, this was also the reason (prior to Unicode)
>>> that C did not specify that alphabetic characters would have a
>>> contiguous sequence in the execution characterset. In EBCDIC,
>>> the alphabetics group a-i, j-r, s-z and A-I, J-R, S-Z, with
>>> various other characters (both assigned and unassigned) between
>>> the groupings.
>> 
>> C still doesn't require Unicode (well, mostly),
>
>Yes. I mentioned Unicode because it both simplifies /and/ complicates
>the matter of alphabetic value contiguity; While it ensures that contiguity
>within an alphabet, it does not ensure contiguity between alphabets (not
>that I think it should), leading to the same problem that EBCDIC presented
>in the first place.
>
>> and still doesn't require 'i'+1=='j'.
>
>I pointed that out because it has become a common programmer misconception;
>hand rolled isalpha-like functions often express themselves with a range
>check in the form of
>  is_lower_case = ((some_char >= 'a') && (some_char <= 'z'));
>  is_upper_case = ((some_char >= 'A') && (some_char <= 'Z'));
>
>The standard explicitly requires /numeric/ characters to have contiguity,
>though.
>  is_number = ((some_char >= '0') && (some_char <= '9'));
>
>
>> C does have UTF-8 string literals, such as
>> u8"hello", which are encoded as UTF-8, but ordinary string literals
>> like "hello" are still encoded using the execution character set,
>> which could be EBCDIC.
>> 
>> There's a proposal to require 'a'..'f' and 'A'..'F' to be contiguous,
>> but it hasn't appeared in the latest C2y draft.
>> 
>> https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n3192.pdf
>
>That's going to complicate the mainframe C compilers a bit :-)

Not really.   Even in EBCDIC, the encodings for both upper
and lower-case A-F are contiguous, as required by n3192.

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Default signedness of 'plain' char. gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-08-02 14:17 +0000
  Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-03 02:45 +0800
    Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-08-03 01:47 +0000
      Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-03 23:14 +0800
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-08-03 17:04 +0100
          The Spanish Inquisition (was: Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-04 00:23 +0800
            Re: The Spanish Inquisition bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-08-03 18:03 +0100
              Re: The Spanish Inquisition Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-04 01:26 +0800
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-08-04 13:13 +0100
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 07:30 +0000
            Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-05 18:18 +0800
              Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-08-05 17:20 +0100
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 21:57 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 15:29 -0700
  Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-08-03 09:56 +0200
    Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-03 13:56 -0500
  Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-08-03 13:48 +0000
  Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-03 14:47 +0000
  Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2026-08-03 14:47 +0000
    Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2026-08-03 15:04 +0000
      Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-03 16:58 -0700
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2026-08-04 15:10 +0000
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-08-04 15:50 +0000
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 03:00 +0000
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-08-05 09:01 +0200
      Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-08-04 18:10 +0000
        Compilers targetting the C64 (was: Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-05 03:17 +0800
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-04 16:25 -0500
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 02:57 +0000
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 00:19 -0500
            Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-05 18:57 +0800
            Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-08-05 14:33 +0000
            Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-05 22:38 +0000
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-04 21:36 -0700
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-08-06 00:21 +0000
  Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-03 13:20 -0700
    Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-08-03 22:06 +0100
      Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-03 14:25 -0700
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-03 18:38 -0500
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-03 19:34 -0700
            Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 04:40 -0500
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 07:22 +0000
            Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 04:02 -0500
              Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-08-05 12:35 +0200
              Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-05 18:49 +0800
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 12:39 -0700
                Dear Chris (was: Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-06 20:15 +0800
                Re: Dear Chris bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-08-06 15:05 +0100
                Re: Dear Chris Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-06 23:16 +0800
                Re: Dear Chris David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-08-06 20:10 +0200
              Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 21:54 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-06 04:49 -0500
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-07 00:10 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-08-07 09:56 +0200
            Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-08-05 13:33 -0400
              Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 21:50 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-08-06 10:34 +0200
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-09 15:19 -0500
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-09 20:33 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-09 18:04 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-10 02:45 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 02:24 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-09 18:03 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-08-10 08:58 +0200
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 15:17 -0500
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 15:19 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 17:31 -0500
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-10 23:48 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-08-10 20:03 -0400
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 20:44 -0500
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-08-11 11:17 -0400
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-11 14:54 -0500
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-12 03:36 +0000
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-12 01:24 -0500
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-12 07:47 +0000
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-12 12:52 -0700
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-12 12:56 -0700
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-13 02:16 +0000
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-12 21:04 -0700
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-12 23:07 -0500
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-13 05:00 +0000
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-13 04:37 -0500
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-13 14:36 -0700
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-13 23:07 -0500
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-13 23:44 +0000
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-13 18:50 -0700
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-14 02:41 +0000
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-13 23:47 -0500
                Re: Quaternions (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-14 04:59 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-11 13:47 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-13 23:50 -0500
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-14 05:59 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-14 03:16 -0500
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-14 08:32 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-14 12:36 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-15 03:16 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-14 22:38 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-16 00:08 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-14 12:17 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-11 13:46 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-11 13:49 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-08-11 08:58 +0200
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-08-11 04:03 -0500
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 20:29 -0400
                Re: Vectors! Quaternions! (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-11 03:58 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-08-11 09:06 +0200
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 21:15 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-11 04:52 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-11 06:45 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-11 14:01 -0700
            Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 12:36 -0700
    Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 07:18 +0000
  Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 18:30 -0500
    Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 16:41 -0700
      Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-08-06 01:24 +0100
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 17:46 -0700
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-06 22:59 +0000
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-06 19:54 -0700
            Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-07 11:02 +0000
              Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-07 10:35 -0700
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-07 18:32 +0000
                Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-08-07 20:55 +0200
              Use of isascii() back in early days (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-08-07 20:51 +0200
                Re: Use of isascii() back in early days (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-07 13:03 -0700
                Re: Use of isascii() back in early days (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-07 13:32 -0700
                Re: Use of isascii() back in early days (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-07 21:44 +0000
                Re: Use of isascii() back in early days (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-08-07 23:47 +0200
                Re: Use of isascii() back in early days (was Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char.) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-07 15:26 -0700
      Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-06 22:57 +0000
        Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-06 18:23 -0700
          Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-07 11:47 +0000
    Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-08-06 14:40 +0000
      Re: Default signedness of 'plain' char. Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-08-06 15:33 -0700

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