Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > linux.debian.project > #11587

Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian

From Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org>
Newsgroups linux.debian.project
Subject Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian
Date 2020-04-07 10:40 +0200
Message-ID <zSRW2-5Od-5@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References <zSCkj-4An-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <zSCDD-4Wm-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <zSEYN-6gx-5@gated-at.bofh.it> <zSFrP-6Gf-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization linux.* mail to news gateway

Show all headers | View raw

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] - view raw

On Mon, Apr 06, 2020 at 07:07:26PM +0000, Luca Filipozzi wrote:

> > I don't know keycloak: what are the maintenance costs, and what would be
> > the benefits over time?
> > 
> > Right now, with the proposal waldi just posted, we have very little to
> > no added maintenance cost, possibly negative maintenance cost once we
> > take sso.debian.org and the current handcrafted salsa subscription thing
> > offline. The amount of code deployed compared to the status quo would go
> > *down*. The user interface and user experience for the lot would be good
> > and well known. Gitlab's codebase, while large and complex, is widely
> > deployed, and we already have know-how about it in Debian.
> 
> Having just joined this conversation, the above is an argument that is
> difficult to refute: one can always argue that 'one in the hand is
> better than one in the bush'.

Yes :/  I think that's more or less where we are now, unfortunately,
after a year or more failing to find people to deploy and maintain
alternatives.

On one hand, client certificate handling in browsers gets worse over
time, and the current sso solution is effectively running on people
collecting all sorts of workaround instructions in the excellent wiki
page at https://wiki.debian.org/DebianSingleSignOn

On the other hand, signing in for non-DDs is a major hurdle that takes
literally weeks, when one can find out how to do it at all. We DDs care
little about that, it's Not Our Problem. That barrier makes joining
nm.debian.org to become a DD a challenge in itself. Other things like
managing one's own information on contributors.debian.org are just not
worth the challenge, and I'm planning to take contributors.d.o offline
soon, because I/we can't, ethically and legally, publish people's
information without giving those people a reasonable chance to control
it.


> My DSA colleagues asked for demo and I'm building that up, currently. I
> view this as a positive but not definitive step in the maintenance
> questions.
> 
> I appreciate that the idea of using keycloak as an IdB requires everyone
> to shift perspective.
> 
> Let me know if you have appetite (or not*) to discuss the above.

Personally I'm interested in anything that works and that I can have a
very good confidence that somebody will maintain over time.

I care about maintenance and sustainability more than about anything
else, because I'm the one who's been forced to set up and maintain SSO
in Debian mostly alone for 8 years, because everybody else walked away
from it and I could not.

OIDC supports various authentication sources, and the Salsa plan
decouples OIDC from LDAP allowing them to evolve independently, removes
custom nonstandard components, and includes the option of migrating away
to something else in the future. In my understanding it enables
experimentation with other systems rather than blocking it.

Question: is there something in the proposed Salsa plan that somehow
blocks experimenting with, introducing, or migrating to Keycloak in the
future?


Enrico

-- 
GPG key: 4096R/634F4BD1E7AD5568 2009-05-08 Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org>

Back to linux.debian.project | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Bastian Blank <waldi@debian.org> - 2020-04-06 18:00 +0200
  Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Luca Filipozzi <lfilipoz@debian.org> - 2020-04-06 18:20 +0200
    Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2020-04-06 20:50 +0200
      Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Luca Filipozzi <lfilipoz@debian.org> - 2020-04-06 21:20 +0200
        Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2020-04-07 10:40 +0200
          Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Geert Stappers <stappers@debian.org> - 2020-04-07 11:30 +0200
          Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Luca Filipozzi <lfilipoz@debian.org> - 2020-04-08 17:10 +0200
            Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2020-04-08 17:40 +0200
              Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Luca Filipozzi <lfilipoz@debian.org> - 2020-04-08 18:00 +0200
                Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2020-04-09 09:50 +0200
                Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Michael Lustfield <michael@lustfield.net> - 2020-04-09 12:20 +0200
                Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2020-04-10 09:30 +0200
                Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2020-04-10 14:50 +0200
                Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2020-04-10 18:00 +0200
                Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Luca Filipozzi <lfilipoz@debian.org> - 2020-04-10 18:30 +0200
                Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2020-04-10 19:30 +0200
                Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2020-04-10 20:20 +0200
                Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Luca Filipozzi <lfilipoz@debian.org> - 2020-04-10 22:10 +0200
                Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2020-04-10 22:30 +0200
      Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Michael Lustfield <michael@lustfield.net> - 2020-04-06 21:50 +0200
        Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2020-04-10 09:50 +0200
          Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2020-04-10 10:30 +0200
          Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@lease-up.com> - 2020-04-10 21:50 +0200
            Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian kuLa <kula@kulisz.net> - 2020-04-11 08:30 +0200
            Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Jonathan Carter <jcc@debian.org> - 2020-04-11 12:10 +0200
              Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Michael Lustfield <michael@lustfield.net> - 2020-04-11 19:30 +0200
                Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Sam Hartman <leader@debian.org> - 2020-04-11 20:20 +0200
    Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Bastian Blank <waldi@debian.org> - 2020-04-07 10:40 +0200
      Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Luca Filipozzi <lfilipoz@debian.org> - 2020-04-08 17:30 +0200
        Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Bastian Blank <waldi@debian.org> - 2020-04-10 12:20 +0200
          Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Luca Filipozzi <lfilipoz@debian.org> - 2020-04-10 19:10 +0200
  Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2020-04-06 21:00 +0200
  Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Xavier <yadd@debian.org> - 2020-04-07 12:40 +0200
    Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2020-04-07 14:10 +0200
      Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Xavier <yadd@debian.org> - 2020-04-07 14:40 +0200
        Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2020-04-07 15:30 +0200
          Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Xavier <yadd@debian.org> - 2020-04-07 15:40 +0200
            Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2020-04-07 16:10 +0200
              Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Xavier <yadd@debian.org> - 2020-04-07 16:30 +0200
                Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Luca Filipozzi <lfilipoz@debian.org> - 2020-04-08 17:50 +0200
      Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Michael Lustfield <michael@lustfield.net> - 2020-04-07 16:30 +0200
        Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2020-04-07 17:00 +0200
    Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Luca Filipozzi <lfilipoz@debian.org> - 2020-04-08 17:40 +0200
      Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Xavier <yadd@debian.org> - 2020-04-08 22:30 +0200
  Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2020-04-07 17:30 +0200
    Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Xavier <yadd@debian.org> - 2020-04-07 17:40 +0200
      Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2020-04-07 19:00 +0200
        Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Xavier <yadd@debian.org> - 2020-04-10 21:50 +0200
    Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2020-04-07 19:00 +0200
    Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Bastian Blank <waldi@debian.org> - 2020-04-07 20:30 +0200
      Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2020-04-08 08:00 +0200
        Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2020-04-08 11:40 +0200
  Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2020-04-08 12:30 +0200
    Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Luca Filipozzi <lfilipoz@debian.org> - 2020-04-08 18:00 +0200
    Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> - 2020-04-08 21:20 +0200
      Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Steve McIntyre <93sam@debian.org> - 2020-04-08 21:40 +0200
      Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2020-04-09 09:30 +0200
        Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> - 2020-04-09 20:10 +0200
          Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2020-04-09 20:30 +0200
          Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2020-04-09 23:30 +0200
            Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> - 2020-04-12 10:40 +0200
              Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2020-04-12 18:50 +0200
                Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> - 2020-04-13 18:50 +0200
                Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Pirate Praveen <praveen@onenetbeyond.org> - 2020-04-13 19:50 +0200
  Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Shengjing Zhu <zhsj@debian.org> - 2020-04-08 14:00 +0200
    Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Shengjing Zhu <zhsj@debian.org> - 2020-04-08 14:20 +0200
      Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2020-04-08 15:00 +0200
    Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Ulrike Uhlig <ulrike@debian.org> - 2020-04-08 14:20 +0200
      Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Shengjing Zhu <zhsj@debian.org> - 2020-04-08 14:30 +0200
        Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2020-04-08 15:30 +0200
          Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2020-04-08 16:10 +0200
            Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2020-04-08 16:30 +0200
          Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Luca Filipozzi <lfilipoz@debian.org> - 2020-04-08 18:10 +0200
            Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2020-04-09 10:10 +0200
      Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Ole Streicher <olebole@debian.org> - 2020-04-08 14:40 +0200
        Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2020-04-10 21:50 +0200
    Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2020-04-08 14:20 +0200
    Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Bastian Blank <waldi@debian.org> - 2020-04-08 14:40 +0200
      Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Shengjing Zhu <zhsj@debian.org> - 2020-04-08 14:50 +0200
        Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2020-04-08 15:00 +0200
          Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2020-04-08 15:20 +0200
      Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Julien Cristau <jcristau@debian.org> - 2020-04-10 21:50 +0200
        Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-11 09:30 +0200
          Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Julien Cristau <jcristau@debian.org> - 2020-04-11 19:30 +0200
            Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2020-04-11 20:10 +0200
            Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-12 07:30 +0200
              Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Luca Filipozzi <lfilipoz@debian.org> - 2020-04-12 17:00 +0200
                Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2020-04-13 16:00 +0200
                Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Peter Palfrader <weasel@debian.org> - 2020-04-13 21:00 +0200
                Re: Salsa as authentication provider for Debian Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2020-04-13 21:30 +0200

csiph-web