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Groups > linux.debian.user > #211967

Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?

From Celejar <celejar@gmail.com>
Newsgroups linux.debian.user
Subject Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?
Date 2019-07-31 14:00 +0200
Message-ID <ypVqV-Oo-7@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
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On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 10:43:48 +0300
Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> wrote:

> 	Hi.
> 
> On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 07:06:08PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> > On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 13:57:25 +0300
> > Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> wrote:
> > 
> > ...
> > 
> > > WPA2's (that's your conventional WiFi standard) secure configuration is
> > > fiendishly difficult. 
> > 
> > I take your point, but "fiendishly difficult"? I think you're
> > exaggerating.
> 
> WPA Enterprise. 802.1r. An "interesting" choice between CCMP and TKIP
> (yep, it's hardware dependent). De-authentication attacks. "Evil twin"
> attacks.
> 
> I meant it when I wrote "fiendishly difficult".

I'm afraid that I'm missing your point. The context here was a home
user choosing between wifi and wired ethernet, and you are arguing that
configuring wifi securely is fiendishly difficult. Why are we talking
about WPA Enterprise, as opposed to PSK?

> > > You have beacon frames that are broadcasted without any encryption.
> > 
> > True, but is there any evidence that this constitutes a security risk?
> 
> Some people believe that hiding AP name gives them another layer of
> security. Beacon frames prove otherwise.

Certainly, but that has no bearing on the underlying question of
whether wifi can be configured to be tolerably secure in a reasonably
straightforward fashion by a home user.

> > > You have authentication frames that can be intercepted (so WPA
> > > passphrase can be bruteforced).
> > 
> > Lots of things (such as TLS, ssh) can theoretically be brute forced -
> > the question is whether such brute forcing is sufficiently practical to
> > be a threat. I have seen nothing to indicate that properly configured
> > WPA2 can be realistically brute forced.
> 
> For WPA2 it's not that hard really, assuming pre-shared key usage.
> Can be expensive (all those videocards and ASICs have their cost), but
> definitely doable.

I'd be interested in seeing some real-world studies, or simply just a
mathematical analysis of how much hardware would be necessary to crack
a good WPA2 password. I've seen lots of sites explaining how to use
hashcat with a GPU, and various real-world tests on lists of hashed
passwords (e.g., [1]), but can you provide a serious analysis of the
practical cost, in time or hardware, of cracking a real-world WPA setup?

> You have several encryption algorithms, but:

...

> > > b) You may have a hardware that lack support for a good ones.
> > 
> > I suppose, but my impression is that most hardware from the last few
> > years is fine.
> 
> Cheap smartphones and tablets. Whatever they put instead of a proper

This misses the point - we're comparing ethernet to wifi. Cheap
smartphones and tablets aren't usually going to support ethernet.

> WiFi in printers (yep, I'm looking at you, HP). Oh, D-Link and Linksys.
> There are *always* some exceptions to "newer is the better" rule.

D-Link and Linksys don't support WPA2-PSK with AES?

[1]
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/05/how-crackers-make-minced-meat-out-of-your-passwords/

Celejar

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Thread

Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-07-29 12:50 +0200
  Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-07-29 13:00 +0200
    Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-07-29 14:00 +0200
      Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-07-29 14:50 +0200
      Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2019-07-29 15:40 +0200
        Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-07-30 11:30 +0200
      Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-07-29 16:30 +0200
        Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-07-29 17:20 +0200
    Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2019-07-29 14:10 +0200
      Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-07-29 15:20 +0200
      Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2019-07-29 15:40 +0200
        Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-07-29 15:50 +0200
          Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2019-07-29 16:10 +0200
            Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-29 17:20 +0200
              Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2019-07-29 18:00 +0200
          Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-07-29 16:30 +0200
          Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2019-07-29 16:40 +0200
        Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-29 16:50 +0200
        Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-07-30 05:00 +0200
      Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-07-29 17:30 +0200
        Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-07-29 21:50 +0200
          Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-29 22:00 +0200
            Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-07-29 22:10 +0200
              Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-29 23:10 +0200
            Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? ghe <ghe@slsware.net> - 2019-07-29 23:30 +0200
              Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-07-30 00:10 +0200
                Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-30 03:50 +0200
                Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-07-30 09:00 +0200
                Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2019-07-30 13:20 +0200
                Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-07-30 14:50 +0200
            Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Matthew Crews <mailinglists@mattcrews.com> - 2019-07-30 14:40 +0200
              Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2019-07-30 15:00 +0200
                Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-30 21:20 +0200
                Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-07-30 21:30 +0200
                Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-31 00:30 +0200
                Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2019-07-30 21:50 +0200
                Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-31 00:30 +0200
                Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? "Martin McCormick" <martin.m@suddenlink.net> - 2019-08-01 14:40 +0200
              Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-07-30 15:50 +0200
              Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-07-30 16:20 +0200
              Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-30 16:30 +0200
                3 phase power (was Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-07-30 17:40 +0200
                Re: 3 phase power (was Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2019-07-31 09:50 +0200
                Re: 3 phase power (was Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-07-31 10:00 +0200
                Re: 3 phase power (was Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-08-01 15:50 +0200
                Re: 3 phase power (was Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-08-01 19:10 +0200
                Re: 3 phase power (was Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-08-01 21:50 +0200
                Re: 3 phase power (was Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? "James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com> - 2019-08-01 22:20 +0200
                Re: 3 phase power (was Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-08-01 23:20 +0200
              Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-08-03 18:30 +0200
                Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-08-03 20:20 +0200
                Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-08-03 21:00 +0200
        Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-29 23:00 +0200
      Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2019-07-29 17:30 +0200
    Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-07-31 01:10 +0200
      Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-07-31 09:10 +0200
        Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-08-02 16:20 +0200
      Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-07-31 09:50 +0200
        Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-07-31 14:00 +0200
          Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-07-31 15:10 +0200
            Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-07-31 15:40 +0200
              Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-07-31 15:50 +0200
                Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2019-08-01 03:20 +0200
                Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-08-01 04:40 +0200
                Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-08-01 04:40 +0200
                Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-01 08:20 +0200
            Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-08-01 04:40 +0200
              Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-01 08:40 +0200
                Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-08-01 08:50 +0200
                Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-01 10:00 +0200
                Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-08-02 05:20 +0200
                Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-08-02 05:20 +0200
      Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-07-31 22:20 +0200
  Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-29 17:00 +0200
  Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2019-07-29 17:20 +0200
    Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-07-29 18:00 +0200
      PROGRESS!! - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-07-29 19:00 +0200
        Re: PROGRESS!! - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-29 23:10 +0200
          Re: PROGRESS!! - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-07-30 05:20 +0200
            Re: PROGRESS!! - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-08-03 17:50 +0200
        Re: PROGRESS!! - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-08-04 14:00 +0200
          Re: PROGRESS!! - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-08-04 14:10 +0200
            Re: PROGRESS!! - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2019-08-04 17:20 +0200
              Re: PROGRESS!! - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-08-05 18:50 +0200
                Re: PROGRESS!! - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-08-05 22:00 +0200
                Re: PROGRESS!! - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-08-06 07:50 +0200
                Re: PROGRESS!! - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-08-06 15:40 +0200
                Re: PROGRESS!! - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-08-07 08:50 +0200
      Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2019-07-29 19:10 +0200
    Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-29 18:40 +0200
  Useful links - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-08-03 15:20 +0200
    Re: Useful links - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2019-08-03 17:00 +0200
      Re: Useful links - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-08-03 17:30 +0200
        Re: Useful links - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-08-03 17:50 +0200
          Re: Useful links - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-03 21:20 +0200
        Re: Useful links - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-08-03 18:20 +0200
    Re: Useful links - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-08-03 17:40 +0200

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