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Groups > linux.debian.project > #10707
| From | Peter Pentchev <roam@ringlet.net> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | linux.debian.project |
| Subject | Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them |
| Date | 2019-07-04 15:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <yg9Ox-2SY-5@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink) |
| References | (5 earlier) <yfxzA-51y-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <yfPPQ-7z5-19@gated-at.bofh.it> <yfReV-56-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <yg58d-5P-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <yg8pr-1VJ-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| Organization | linux.* mail to news gateway |
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On Thu, Jul 04, 2019 at 07:43:13AM -0400, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 04, 2019 at 10:18:18AM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> > On Wed, 03 Jul 2019, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> > > On Wed, Jul 03, 2019 at 05:33:25PM +0200, Ole Streicher wrote:
> > > > Being german, I think that Debian should honor discriminated minorities,
> > >
> > > Being a discriminated against minority, I think Debian should *not*.
> >
> > And since Debian is do-ocracy, it's not your call. You can disagree with
> > the publicity team, but it's their call and a call they made while trying
> > to put our diversity statement into application.
> >
> My position is not one of disagreement without basis. I have found,
> through my own experience, that diversity efforts (including those like
> the pride month logo Debian logo change) end up doing more harm than
> good. By that I do not mean that they hurt the feelings of majority
> groups (though that may be an associated affect), but rather that in
> the end such efforts often further marginalize those for whom the "help"
> is meant.
Sorry if I'm belaboring the obvious, but, uhm, is this not how this has
always played out in history when some people decide to change the
status quo? Is it not only normal that in the initial and interim stage,
before the opinion of the majority is changed, pretty much any and every
action is viewed as provocative and destabilizing and leads to
a short-term increase in attacks towards the corresponding group?
The point is that each of these actions will hopefully cause maybe
a single person, maybe five people, maybe a hundred, to stop, think,
reconsider, and decide that the status quo need not necessarily remain
such. And, yes, historically there have always been people in these
groups who would say something like "oh, please, stop rocking the boat,
we are fine as long as they don't pay attention to us" - but part of
the point is to change that mindset, too.
Please note that I'm not saying "it's okay for everyone to harass
activists and people for whose benefit those activists are carrying out
their activism"; I'm also not saying "oh come on, stop complaining, of
course you'll have to take some flack". I have seen close friends of
mine get hurt in such ways, some by words, some by more than words, and
while I personally have not been on the receiving end, for all that it's
worth, I do emphatize as much as it is possible for me to.
G'luck,
Peter
--
Peter Pentchev roam@{ringlet.net,debian.org,FreeBSD.org} pp@storpool.com
PGP key: http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/roam.key.asc
Key fingerprint 2EE7 A7A5 17FC 124C F115 C354 651E EFB0 2527 DF13
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Debian supports pridemonth? Gerardo Ballabio <gerardo.ballabio@gmail.com> - 2019-06-28 12:10 +0200
Re: Debian supports pridemonth? Jonathan Carter <jcc@debian.org> - 2019-06-28 12:40 +0200
Re: Debian supports pridemonth? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2019-06-28 14:00 +0200
Re: Debian supports pridemonth? Marc Haber <mh+debian-project@zugschlus.de> - 2019-06-28 14:20 +0200
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Re: Debian supports pridemonth? Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2019-07-02 00:30 +0200
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Re: Debian supports pridemonth? John Goerzen <jgoerzen@complete.org> - 2019-07-02 17:50 +0200
Re: Debian supports pridemonth? Martin Steigerwald <martin@lichtvoll.de> - 2019-07-02 15:20 +0200
Re: Debian supports pridemonth? Marc Haber <mh+debian-project@zugschlus.de> - 2019-07-02 11:10 +0200
Re: Debian supports pridemonth? Martin Steigerwald <martin@lichtvoll.de> - 2019-07-02 11:20 +0200
Re: Debian supports pridemonth? Ole Streicher <olebole@debian.org> - 2019-07-02 12:30 +0200
Re: Debian supports pridemonth? Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2019-07-02 15:20 +0200
Re: Debian supports pridemonth? Martin Steigerwald <martin@lichtvoll.de> - 2019-07-02 11:10 +0200
Re: Debian supports pridemonth? Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org> - 2019-07-02 12:30 +0200
Pride Month Discussion has Run its Course Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-07-02 14:20 +0200
Re: Pride Month Discussion has Run its Course Alexander Wirt <formorer@formorer.de> - 2019-07-02 14:40 +0200
Re: Pride Month Discussion has Run its Course Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-07-02 14:50 +0200
Re: Pride Month Discussion has Run its Course Alexander Wirt <formorer@formorer.de> - 2019-07-02 14:50 +0200
Re: Pride Month Discussion has Run its Course Joerg Jaspert <joerg@debian.org> - 2019-07-06 18:10 +0200
Re: Pride Month Discussion has Run its Course Alexander Wirt <formorer@debian.org> - 2019-07-06 20:10 +0200
Re: Pride Month Discussion has Run its Course Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2019-07-06 20:50 +0200
Re: Pride Month Discussion has Run its Course Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> - 2019-07-06 21:20 +0200
Re: Pride Month Discussion has Run its Course Alexander Wirt <formorer@formorer.de> - 2019-07-06 20:50 +0200
Re: Pride Month Discussion has Run its Course Martin Steigerwald <martin@lichtvoll.de> - 2019-07-06 21:40 +0200
Re: Pride Month Discussion has Run its Course Stefano Zacchiroli <zack@debian.org> - 2019-07-06 23:20 +0200
Re: Pride Month Discussion has Run its Course Mathias Behrle <mathiasb@m9s.biz> - 2019-07-07 00:20 +0200
Re: Pride Month Discussion has Run its Course Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2019-07-07 00:40 +0200
Re: Pride Month Discussion has Run its Course Alexander Wirt <formorer@debian.org> - 2019-07-07 10:30 +0200
Re: Pride Month Discussion has Run its Course Mathias Behrle <mathiasb@m9s.biz> - 2019-07-07 00:10 +0200
Re: Pride Month Discussion has Run its Course "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> - 2019-07-02 17:00 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2019-07-02 22:30 +0200
Cultural differences and how to handle them Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2019-07-02 22:30 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> - 2019-07-02 23:20 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2019-07-03 14:10 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Hanno 'Rince' Wagner <wagner@rince.de> - 2019-07-03 15:00 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2019-07-03 15:00 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info> - 2019-07-03 15:50 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2019-07-03 17:20 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Martina Ferrari <tincho@debian.org> - 2019-07-03 16:40 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Marc Haber <mh+debian-project@zugschlus.de> - 2019-07-03 15:50 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Jason Crain <jason@inspiresomeone.us> - 2019-07-03 15:20 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2019-07-03 16:50 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Jason Crain <jason@inspiresomeone.us> - 2019-07-03 18:40 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Marc Haber <mh+debian-project@zugschlus.de> - 2019-07-03 19:00 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Ole Streicher <olebole@debian.org> - 2019-07-03 20:20 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Fabian Grünbichler <fabian.gruenbichler@student.tuwien.ac.at> - 2019-07-03 21:10 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Marc Haber <mh+debian-project@zugschlus.de> - 2019-07-03 22:00 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Fabian Grünbichler <fabian.gruenbichler@student.tuwien.ac.at> - 2019-07-03 23:30 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Nikolaus Rath <Nikolaus@rath.org> - 2019-07-04 10:30 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Ulrike Uhlig <ulrike@debian.org> - 2019-07-03 16:40 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2019-07-03 18:10 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2019-07-04 12:00 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Ulrike Uhlig <ulrike@debian.org> - 2019-07-04 13:20 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them "Chris Lamb" <lamby@debian.org> - 2019-07-03 17:00 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Mark Brown <broonie@debian.org> - 2019-07-03 19:50 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Zlatan Todoric <zlatan@riseup.net> - 2019-07-16 10:30 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Ole Streicher <olebole@debian.org> - 2019-07-03 18:00 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2019-07-03 19:30 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org> - 2019-07-04 10:20 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2019-07-04 13:50 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Martina Ferrari <tincho@debian.org> - 2019-07-04 14:40 +0200
Re: Cultural differences and how to handle them Peter Pentchev <roam@ringlet.net> - 2019-07-04 15:20 +0200
What can I do if I disagree with a Delegate's Decision Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-07-08 18:50 +0200
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Re: Debian supports pridemonth? Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2019-07-02 15:30 +0200
Re: Debian supports pridemonth? Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-07-01 20:30 +0200
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Re: Debian supports pridemonth? Eldon Koyle <ekoyle@gmail.com> - 2019-07-02 01:10 +0200
Re: Debian supports pridemonth? Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-07-02 01:30 +0200
Re: Debian supports pridemonth? Eldon Koyle <ekoyle@gmail.com> - 2019-07-02 02:40 +0200
Re: Debian supports pridemonth? Martina Ferrari <tincho@debian.org> - 2019-07-02 06:20 +0200
Re: Debian supports pridemonth? Marc Haber <mh+debian-project@zugschlus.de> - 2019-07-01 20:40 +0200
Re: Debian supports pridemonth? Eldon Koyle <ekoyle@gmail.com> - 2019-06-28 18:20 +0200
Re: Debian supports pridemonth? "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> - 2019-06-28 12:50 +0200
Re: Debian supports pridemonth? Gerardo Ballabio <gerardo.ballabio@gmail.com> - 2019-06-28 17:10 +0200
Re: Debian supports pridemonth? Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-06-28 18:10 +0200
Re: Debian supports pridemonth? Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-06-28 15:00 +0200
Re: Debian supports pridemonth? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2019-06-28 15:30 +0200
Re: Debian supports pridemonth? Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-06-28 16:00 +0200
Re: Debian supports pridemonth? Ondřej Surý <ondrej@sury.org> - 2019-06-28 16:20 +0200
Re: Debian supports pridemonth? Gerardo Ballabio <gerardo.ballabio@gmail.com> - 2019-06-28 15:40 +0200
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