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Re: New su behavior in util-linux 2.32

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On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 08:43:12AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
>On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 11:41:34AM +0200, Pétùr wrote:
>> The new 'su' is useless for me because it cannot launch root program.
>> I did the modification in /etc/login.defs and restore the previous
>> behavior. However I am concern with the statement " Doing plain 'su'
>> is a really bad idea for many reasons".
>>
>> Could someone explain to me why this is a bad behavior?
>
>It's not what Red Hat does, and therefore "oooooh, we have to change to
>match what Red Hat does".

Actually, util-linux is distributed by the Linux Kernel Organization 
(i.e. the folks at kernel.org). So, yes, Debian has to match what Red 
Hat does inasmuch as Red Hat uses a Linux kernel and so does Debian. It 
just makes sense to use the kernel-provided kernel utilities.

As an aside, I don't know what the situation is with the *BSD Debians. 
They presumably don't use util-linux, so I *guess* they're still using 
su from src:shadow?

>
>Never mind the fact that it's a completely stupid, intrusive, pointless
>change that breaks the behavior that has been working properly in Debian
>for decades.  Who cares about things working properly, or backward
>compatiblity, or common sense?  GOTTA MATCH RED HAT!

Change should be acceptable IF there is a good reason for it. I'll 
agree, though, that it's not really been well-communicated how "su -" is 
better than "su" and why, apparently, the meaning of the two have been 
swapped over. But if the point is to make things more secure, then 
that's a perfectly acceptable reason for breakage.

>
>Users will be confused?  SCREW 'EM!  GOTTA MATCH RED HAT!
>
>Scripts will break?  SCREW 'EM!  GOTTA MATCH FUCKING RED HAT!
>
>The only reason anyone would think that "plain su is bad" is because
>they had to work with Red Hat systems (or perhaps certain BSD-based
>systems) where plain su behaves the way testing's su behaves, and
>they got used to it.
>


-- 
For more information, please reread.

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New su behavior in util-linux 2.32 Pétùr <peturvilj@gmail.com> - 2018-08-11 11:50 +0200
  Re: New su behavior in util-linux 2.32 Stefan Krusche <linux@stefan-krusche.de> - 2018-08-11 12:00 +0200
    Re: New su behavior in util-linux 2.32 Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2018-08-11 16:10 +0200
      Re: New su behavior in util-linux 2.32 Samuel Henrique <samueloph@debian.org> - 2018-08-11 17:50 +0200
      Re: New su behavior in util-linux 2.32 Pétùr <peturvilj@gmail.com> - 2018-08-11 18:00 +0200
        Re: New su behavior in util-linux 2.32 Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2018-08-11 19:10 +0200
  Re: New su behavior in util-linux 2.32 Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2018-08-11 13:50 +0200
    Re: New su behavior in util-linux 2.32 Pétùr <peturvilj@gmail.com> - 2018-08-11 18:00 +0200
  Re: New su behavior in util-linux 2.32 Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-08-13 14:50 +0200
    Re: New su behavior in util-linux 2.32 Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2018-08-13 15:10 +0200
      Re: New su behavior in util-linux 2.32 Sven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de> - 2018-08-13 15:40 +0200
  Re: New su behavior in util-linux 2.32 Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2018-08-14 11:00 +0200

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