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Re: Storing "real" user data: was: Re: Update: Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations

From	"der.hans" <deb-user@LuftHans.com>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.user
Subject	Re: Storing "real" user data: was: Re: Update: Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations
Date	2018-03-30 20:20 +0200
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Am 30. Mar, 2018 schwätzte rhkramer@gmail.com so:

moin moin,

I tend to keep my created data in ~/local/, so ~/local/bin/, ~/local/etc/,
~/local/sandbox/, ~/local/data/, etc.

I then link some of the dotfiles I want to preserve into ~/local/etc/, e.g.
.mozilla, .screenrc and .vim.

I haven't been dilligent enough to force ~/Desktop/ and ~/Documents/ to be
softlinks into ~/local/, so I don't have experience as to whether or not
that would freak tools out.

Some desktop environments helpfully rename those directories when I
switch languages, so I'm certain there would be some issues with the
automagically created directories.

I still back up all of ~/, but I take advantage of ~/local/ for syncing
systems.

ciao,

der.hans

> On Friday, March 30, 2018 07:54:03 AM Tomaž Šolc wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> On 27. 03. 2018 03:02, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
>>> I have what might be called a "religious" aversion to storing what I
>>> consider "real" user data in /home.
>>
>> I'm curious. Why do you have this aversion and where do you store "real"
>> user data?
>>
>> This is the first time I've heard about not storing user data in /home.
>> I thought that's the whole point of /home.
>
> Well, it's my religion, and afaik, I have no (or maybe few?) disciples)--or
> maybe I should not call them disciples but--what would the word be--
> independent "prophets").
>
> Also, it's been a while since I developed that "religion" (I shouldn't call it
> a religion, I mean no disrespect to real religions).
>
> Now I'm trying to "remember out loud" (which is sort of like thinking out
> loud, only trying to remember rather than think ;-)
>
> One of the first disappointing encounters I had with ~ was when I did something
> like intentionally delete it--this could have been back around 2000 or 2001.
> I completely forgot (or maybe I hadn't yet learned that there is a lot of stuff
> stored in ~ as hidden files.
>
> It (the stuff stored as hidden files) is what I now call "user configuration
> data" as opposed to what I call "real user data", which I define as files I've
> created or intentionally captured / stored--things like text documents,
> letters, spreadsheets, code I may have written, music files, videos, photos,
> ...--in short, things I [probably | may ] want to keep "forever" (for example,
> stuff I want to carry along when I upgrade to a new computer or OS).
>
> When I upgrade to a new computer or OS, I don't necessarily want to carry my
> "user configuration data" along--it may be irrelevant or even counter
> productive in the new OS.  (To be sure, sometimes the case is just the
> opposite--I figured out some configuration that I prefer and I want to carry
> that along to the new OS (assuming it will work in the new OS).
>
> In fact, I may be misremembering my first disappointing counter with ~: I may
> have done just the opposite of what I described like copy ~ (with my "real
> user data" to a new OS and got all of the "user configuration data" along with
> the "real user data" which caused some problems with the new OS.
>
> Some asides:
>
>   * that was back in the day when I was first considering my move to LInux--
> what I did in those days (with a spare computer) was attempt to install a
> LInux distro--if it installed, I then tried it out for anywhere from a few
> houirs to maybe a few days or weeks--when I found something I didn't like I'd
> try the next distro.  (In those days I found lots of Linux distros, some from
> a LUG I belonged to.)
>
>   * in those early days, I may have made both mistakes--that is: carrying
> along the "user configuration data" with my "real user data" when I really
> didn't want to, and accidentally wiping out my "real user data" when I really
> just wanted to wipe out the "user configuration data".
>
> Anyway, to me it was a problem (and I considered it a design mistake) to
> combine the two types of data in one directory, and even more so, having one
> of the types of data as hidden files / directories so it was too easy (for me)
> to forget about it.
>
> So, anyway, after various fits and starts (which included corresponding with
> various mailing lists about the problem or ways to get around it), I
> considered two solutions each involving moving one of the types of data out of
> ~.
>
> It became easier to move my "real user data" out of ~. so I created a new (and
> eventually more than one) top level directory which I named /<user> (e.g.,
> /bill) to store my real user data.
>
> Some of the related problems that I had to overcome included:
>
>   * many applications that I was aware of at the time defaulted to storing
> their "real user data" files in ~.  (I.e., if I created a text file with some
> useful content, many applications stored that in ~ by default, and some didn't
> even have a reasonable way of specifying a different directory (iirc--or, at
> least, I couldn't find that reasonable way).  So I had to find different
> applications that allowed me to specify where to store the files, and, in some
> cases, contacted the authors / maintainers of such software asking them to
> provide such a reasonable way.
>
>   IIRC, lots of these things became easier when I started using a GUI vs. the
> command line, but maybe the early GUIs had the same problem (of defaulting to
> store "real user data" in ~.
>
>   * some of the people I corresponded with seemed to have no concept of what
> I meant by real user data, and it took me a while to find ways to make it clear
> to them.  (Some of them seemed to just consider what I call "user configuration
> data" as the only user data--the only thing that concerned them.)
>
>   * the people and specifications that "controlled" *nix seemed to think it
> was perfectly fine to combine both types of data in one directory, with one
> type hidden.  I spent considerable time "lobbying" if you will some of those
> people and specs to get them changed.  (I think I was helpful in eventually
> getting some changes made to the FHS to make it clear that storing real user
> data in a place other than ~ acceptable.  (On the other hand, there were other
> people working in the same direction, so maybe I just eventually rode the
> groundswell ;-)
>
> Anyway, these days, I store all my "real user data" in directories other than
> ~, these include directories like /<user>01, /<user>02, (e.g., /bob01, /bob02,
> /back01, back02), and I have no fear / reluctance to create other such top
> level directories when I feel a need to.  (On the other hand, most of my real
> user data is under directories like (e.g.,) /bob01, e.g., /bob01/photos,
> /bob01/documents, ...
>
> The one thing I still don't like is that the "user configuration data" is
> stored as hidden files in ~.  I configure any file manager or similar software
> that I use to show hidden files.
>
> Thanks for allowing / prompting(?) me to reminisce!  Sorry for bending your
> ear^H^H^Heyes ;-)
>

-- 
#  https://www.LuftHans.com   https://www.PhxLinux.org
#  "I guess I should've agreed with my boss more often. Today I was replaced
#  by a bobblehead doll!" -- Randy Glasbergen, 13Mar2006

Thread

Password Manager opinions and recommendations rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-03-25 18:00 +0200
  Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations likcoras <likcoras@riseup.net> - 2018-03-25 18:40 +0200
    Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2018-03-26 00:10 +0200
  Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-25 19:50 +0200
    Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2018-03-25 20:10 +0200
      Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-25 20:50 +0200
        Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations Ángel <debian-user@debian.16bits.net> - 2018-03-25 23:20 +0200
          Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-26 21:40 +0200
            Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations Mark Fletcher <mark27q1@gmail.com> - 2018-03-27 04:50 +0200
  Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2018-03-26 02:40 +0200
    Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-03-26 04:00 +0200
      Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-26 22:00 +0200
        Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-03-26 23:40 +0200
          Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-03-27 10:10 +0200
            Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-03-27 14:50 +0200
              Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-03-27 15:00 +0200
        Update: Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-03-27 03:10 +0200
          Re: Update: Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations Abdullah Ramazanoglu <ar018@yahoo.com> - 2018-03-27 03:40 +0200
          Re: Update: Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations Kushal Kumaran <kushal@locationd.net> - 2018-03-27 07:00 +0200
            Re: Update: Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-03-27 14:40 +0200
          Re: Update: Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-03-27 10:00 +0200
            Re: Update: Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-03-27 14:50 +0200
          Re: Update: Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-27 13:20 +0200
            Re: Update: Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2018-03-28 04:30 +0200
              Re: Update: Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-28 12:40 +0200
          Re: Update: Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations Tomaž Šolc <tomaz.solc@tablix.org> - 2018-03-30 14:00 +0200
            Re: Update: Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2018-03-30 14:50 +0200
              Re: Update: Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-03-30 16:10 +0200
                Re: Update: Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2018-03-31 01:00 +0200
            Storing "real" user data: was: Re: Update: Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-03-30 16:00 +0200
              Re: Storing "real" user data: was: Re: Update: Re: Password Manager  opinions and recommendations Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-03-30 16:20 +0200
              Re: Storing "real" user data: was: Re: Update: Re: Password Manager  opinions and recommendations "der.hans" <deb-user@LuftHans.com> - 2018-03-30 20:20 +0200
    Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations "der.hans" <deb-user@LuftHans.com> - 2018-03-30 10:50 +0200
      Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-03-30 15:20 +0200
        Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations "der.hans" <deb-user@LuftHans.com> - 2018-03-30 21:00 +0200
          Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2018-03-31 03:50 +0200
            Chaniging focus: security ouitside a password manager (was: Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-04-02 15:10 +0200
              Re: Chaniging focus: security ouitside a password manager (was: Re:  Password Manager opinions and recommendations) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-04-02 15:20 +0200
                Re: Chaniging focus: security ouitside a password manager (was: Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-04-02 20:30 +0200
              Re: Chaniging focus: security ouitside a password manager (was: Re:  Password Manager opinions and recommendations) Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2018-04-02 15:30 +0200
              Re: Chaniging focus: security ouitside a password manager likcoras <likcoras@riseup.net> - 2018-04-02 16:00 +0200
              Re: Chaniging focus: security ouitside a password manager Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2018-04-03 01:30 +0200
              Re: Chaniging focus: security ouitside a password manager (was: Re:  Password Manager opinions and recommendations) "der.hans" <deb-user@LuftHans.com> - 2018-04-03 02:10 +0200
              Re: Chaniging focus: security ouitside a password manager Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2018-04-03 08:00 +0200
                Re: Chaniging focus: security ouitside a password manager rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-04-03 13:50 +0200
                Re: Chaniging focus: security ouitside a password manager Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2018-04-03 18:30 +0200
              Re: Chaniging focus: security ouitside a password manager (was: Re:  Password Manager opinions and recommendations) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-04-03 11:40 +0200
              Re: Chaniging focus: security ouitside a password manager (was: Re:  Password Manager opinions and recommendations) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-04-03 21:10 +0200
  Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations Abdullah Ramazanoglu <ar018@yahoo.com> - 2018-03-26 03:40 +0200
    Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations Abdullah Ramazanoglu <ar018@yahoo.com> - 2018-03-26 04:20 +0200
      Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2018-03-26 05:10 +0200
  Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2018-03-26 04:00 +0200

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