Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference??

From	Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Newsgroups	alt.os.linux, alt.comp.os.windows-11
Subject	Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference??
Date	2025-02-16 09:59 -0500
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<vosuh6$l094$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	<vospql$k77g$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

Show all headers | View raw

On Sun, 2/16/2025 8:39 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
> I've got a PVR who's HD is getting pretty full (90%+) with programs I'll want to watch some day ... so I was thinking about coping some of the 'Keeper' programs onto DVD which meant buying a spool of DVD's.... but then needed to check if I needed DVD-R or DVD+R disks. (It is DVD-R)
> 
> Which got me thinking ...... What's the difference between DVD-R and DVD+R??
> 
> (Note ... I'm not discussing R v RW, just the -/+.)
> 
> Back in the day (70's/80's), I used to do some Digital work where 'they' talked about Positive Logic (Ones = +5V, Zeros = Zero volts) and Negative Logic (Ones = Zero Volts and Zeros = +5V or even Ones = -5V and Zeros = Zero Volts), so I can understand/accept that there are differences ..... but with DVDs??
> 
> On a +R DVD, are the 'Ones' high points on the disk whilst on a -R DVD are the 'ones' the low points on the disk?? (Or, rather than 'highs' and 'lows', is it a case of the orientations of the 'North Poles' and 'South Poles' of the Domains??)

The tracking groove has a different encoding.

It is the loss of the tracking groove (to keep the heads over the spiral groove),
that determines when the media cannot be read. Generally speaking, the error correction
is so powerful, it can correct at "10^4 error rate", and even badly burned media
can kinda be read.

It is when the groove cannot be tracked, that the DVD drive "goes nuts"
and the interface tends to stop responding properly. For example, maybe
it ignores the button press on the front, to open the tray, if the
tracking is not working.

I had a Memorex disc once, which was damn close to transparent, and
there were no chemicals inside the polycarbonate sandwich. I had to use
a paper clip to get the disc out of the drive, the drive was that nuts.
The microprocessor inside the drive was insistent that it was going
to find that groove and lock to it, and it wasn't going to pay
attention to any button pushes.

*******

One of the formats, is ever so slightly more reliable than the other format.
But if the contrasting materials are all gone, it does not matter. Modern
media is not really all that wonderful, but it does not fail like the
Memorex disc did.

For example, there might not be any more Ritek. Maybe there is
CMC. My drive has trouble burning CMC -- you can tell the laser
is running at high power, as if there isn't a recognizable media
tag with burning instructions. Those were "Philips" brand, but
instead of Ritek, the discs were CMC. That's what the end of
the optical media era brings us, is discs that don't burn as nice.

Does anyone care ? Well, they can't care really, because Verbatim is
only going to carry one of the two formats, optical media is in decline,
and so on.

There used to be a web site which discussed the groove formats,
for the enthusiast to study.

*******

<CoPilot> [Since most of the description was wrong, I just collected breadcrumbs]

**DVD-R**: This format uses a technology called **groove modulation**
**DVD+R**: In contrast, DVD+R uses a method known as **wobble modulation**

*******

Recordable disc radial grooves are sinusoidal bending mode (snake-like). This structure is called wobble.
There are two wobble frequency for recordable CD, DVD-R(W) uses 140.6KHz, while the DVD+R(W) uses 817.4 KHz.
The wobble loads the information of the recordable CD. It can provide tracking information and speed information.
The addressing information varies according to formats.

- ATIP (Absolute Time in Pre-groove), which is to concoct the time into the wobble.
- ADIP (Address in Pre-groove, which is also to conduct the time code into wobble.

https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/media/2566-how-wobble-groove.html

   "The grooves of DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R and DVD+RW are spiral shaped.

    The DVD-R and DVD-RW are set with LPP (land pre pit) with addressing information.
    DVD+R(W) have a higher wobble frequency than that of DVD-R(W).
    The addressing information is loaded on the Phase Modulation of groove, so it is also called ADIP.

    The rut of pre-grooves DVD-R and DVD-RW is concocted with ATIP and the address information is
    provided by the LPP. The pre pit shall offer the amplitude peak of the wobble signal of the groove.

    The pre-groove of DVD+R and DVD+RW using a ADIP way with information loaded on the phase modulation of the groove.

*******

The phase modulation of DVD+R might be the more reliable method.

Therefore, Verbatim should sell DVD-R discs :-)

It looks like in my last purchase, I got a short stack of +R dual layer (for Ubuntu or Windows)
and a taller stack of -R single layer for everything else. And they were probably
both Verbatim, as there has been much consolidation in the industry,
and abandonment of production.

The Ritek was pretty funny. At one time, you would get Maxell brand boxes,
and they had Ritek inside. Ritek mainly made bare media (stacks of discs no wrapping).
It was up to Fujitsu or Maxell to wrap the discs in a plastic cake box and
put a paper label around the circumference.

When the industry fell apart, the "packagers" quit the industry instantly.
suddenly, Ritek discovered there was no Maxell or Fujitsu to take containers
of discs and wrap them in pretty cake boxes.

The last loads of Ritek arrived on our fine shores, bereft of packaging.
Some idiot at the store, wrapped 100 disc piles in Saran Wrap :-)
That was some of the last Ritek I ever saw. The next year, even the Saran Wrap
version was gone :-) It's a damn shame, but there it is.

   Paul

Thread

So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-17 00:39 +1100
  Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-16 15:06 +0100
  Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-02-16 15:45 +0100
    Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-18 19:37 +1100
      Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-18 19:43 +1100
      Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-02-18 12:01 +0000
      Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-18 09:41 -0500
        Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-18 20:32 +0100
          Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-18 14:51 -0500
            Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-18 21:59 +0100
  Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-16 09:59 -0500
  Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Herbert Kleebauer <klee@unibwm.de> - 2025-02-16 16:43 +0100
    Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-16 16:21 +0000
      Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Rick <rick@nospam.com> - 2025-02-16 11:33 -0500
        Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-18 20:00 +1100
      Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-18 19:56 +1100
        Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-18 11:17 +0000
          Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-21 18:02 +1100
            Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-21 12:02 +0100
              Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-21 22:55 +1100
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-21 14:16 +0100
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-26 00:23 +1100
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-25 14:38 +0100
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-25 14:30 -0500
            Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-02-21 11:07 +0000
            Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-21 15:19 +0000
              Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-26 16:04 +1100
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-26 18:15 +1100
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-26 07:08 -0500
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-26 15:29 +0000
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-27 19:00 +1100
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-27 03:52 -0500
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-27 11:24 +0100
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-27 13:57 +0000
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-27 09:53 -0500
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-27 15:31 +0000
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-27 13:27 -0500
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-27 19:00 +0000
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-27 20:37 -0500
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-28 19:38 +1100
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-28 11:13 +0000
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-02 02:36 +0000
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-02 00:51 -0500
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-03-02 18:59 +1100
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-03-04 23:32 +1100
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-01 22:13 +0000
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2025-03-01 22:27 +0000
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-02 00:41 +0000
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-02 01:06 -0500
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> - 2025-03-03 10:22 -0500
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-03-04 19:26 +1100
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-27 14:05 +0000
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-28 20:06 +1100
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-28 11:24 +0000
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-28 14:50 -0500
  Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-02-16 10:53 -0500
    Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-16 14:04 -0500
      Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-16 21:52 +0100
        Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-02-17 19:40 +0000
      Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2025-02-16 20:15 -0600
        Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-17 21:05 +0100
          Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2025-02-18 02:31 -0600
            Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-18 13:29 +0100
              Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-18 20:29 +0100
            Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-20 21:09 +1100
              Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-20 13:27 +0100
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> - 2025-02-20 17:46 -0800
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-21 18:08 +1100
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-21 12:11 +0100
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2025-02-21 18:40 +0000
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2025-02-21 19:30 +0000
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> - 2025-02-22 04:02 +0000
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2025-02-22 19:54 +0000
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> - 2025-02-25 12:28 +1100
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-01 03:46 +0000
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-21 22:37 +0100
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2025-02-22 21:58 +0000
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-25 14:19 +0100
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2025-02-21 18:36 +0000
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-02-21 08:34 +0000
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2025-02-21 18:31 +0000
                Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> - 2025-02-22 03:53 +0000
  Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Rick <rick@nospam.com> - 2025-02-16 10:54 -0500
    Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2025-02-16 17:01 +0000
      Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-18 09:57 -0500
  Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> - 2025-02-16 10:34 -0800
  Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-02-17 08:52 +0000
    Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-17 14:49 -0500
    Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-18 20:17 +1100
  Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> - 2025-02-21 10:35 +0000
    Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-21 12:41 -0500
  Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> - 2025-02-26 18:53 -0500
    Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-26 20:14 -0500
    Re: So far OT ..... DVD+R v DVD-R ... What's the difference?? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-02 02:39 +0000

csiph-web