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Re: Turning off the Log-in Password

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On Mon, 1/27/2025 6:16 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2025-01-26 20:46, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>>>> Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Herbert Kleebauer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Just hold down the <SHIFT> key while you click on
>>>>>> the restart button in the start menu of Windows. Then
>>>>>> you will get the boot menu on next startup.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Well, on my laptop, that gets into the *UEFI* software, *not* into the
>>>>> *BIOS*.
>>>>
>>>> If you have a UEFI, that's instead of a BIOS.
>>>
>>>    No, one has UEFI *and* BIOS. But you've put me/us on the right path.
>>> Read on.
>>
>> Nono. There is only UEFI. Forget the name "BIOS". Even if it looks like 
>> the BIOS, croaks like the BIOS, walks like the BIOS, it is no longer 
>> BIOS, it is part of the UEFI.
> 
> [You probably hadn't read my "Correction:" with my further
> clarification.]
> 
>   As I said in the part you snipped, the (firmware of the) *computer*
> (in this case an HP Pavilion 15-eh2560nd laptop) *says* "BIOS" in the
> relevant menus. And, to add insult to injury, when the firmware was
> (forcefully) updated, the screen said:
> 
>   "(hp)				HP BIOS Update
> 
> 	The System BIOS is being updated. The update will take a few
> 	minutes to complete.
> 
> 	Do not shut down your computer during the process. [In red.]
> 
> 	Writing new BIOS image
> 
> 	Block NNN / 256
> 
> 			Progress: NN% [blue on light-grey progress bar]"
> 
>   So just on this one screen, it said "BIOS" three times.
> 
>   Also the support page says "BIOS-System Firmware" and only talks about
> "BIOS" and doesn't even mention UEFI.
> 
> <https://support.hp.com/us-en/drivers/hp-pavilion-15-laptop-pc-15-eh2000/model/2101006263?sku=693B1EA>
> 
>   Probably the term "BIOS" is used, because that's a known term, much
> more known than "UEFI". And if we want to be pedantic, even the term
> "BIOS" was/is wrong, because it's much more than the Basic Input Output
> System part.
> 
>   So, let's put all silly semantics aside and let's settle on 'the BIOS
> part of the UEFI'. Agreed?
> 
> [Paul, what is your take on this?]
> 

It's quite common for the word BIOS to be used on support
pages, at least as far as "flashing" recipes are concerned.

The objective is to "reassure" the uncertain user, that
they are "doing a good thing". This is why they use familiar
terminology, rather than technically correct terminology. If
they used the word "UEFI" a lot, the user would say
"Gee, I should get out of here, this doesn't sound right".
That would be my instinctive reaction.

I expect the wrong terminology will disappear in a year or two,
as the Intel "UEFI-only" mandate takes effect. It should already
be here, that all BIOS-like features are gone (no CSM, no dual
mode graphics support) and the machines now are well and truly
UEFI only. Only Secure Boot should be a setting to turn on or off.
That's the only variable left. And the machine will arrive with
Secure Boot on.

Setup problems are destined to get a lot worse, when some
of these companies don't set up UEFI properly, and the user
has no good options to work around the mess. For example, Microsoft
revoked a certificate, and what ships on a new machine ? Was it
updated properly at the factory, or not ? Some of the Windows Update
materials, it was the wrong way to deliver things, as the machine
can get out of sync with the Microsoft story board for their "fixes".

If I have to choose between "Flashing a BIOS" and "Flashing a UEFI",
depending on the person I'm talking to, I am more likely to use
the first phrase, just because people may have actually done
one of the first items, but zero of the second items. User
for the last twenty five years, on home-built computers,
have seen that section in the back pages of the user manual.
It's a tough choice to make, because the first phrase is similar
to saying "Kleenex" when you mean "a tissue for blowing your nose".
For better or worse, Kleenex has entered the lexicon, and
"No Name Tissue" from my grocer is a non-starter when describing
a process.

So far, I have flashed three or four UEFI here, in the last two
years, just for bug fixes and security. I would never have said
that back in the BIOS era. I've had motherboards where the BIOS
never got flashed, because the machine started OK and it didn't
need any more adjustment by the manufacturer.

   Paul

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Thread

Turning off the Log-in Password Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-01-25 22:57 +1100
  Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-01-25 12:31 +0000
    Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Herbert Kleebauer <klee@unibwm.de> - 2025-01-25 14:35 +0100
    Re: Turning off the Log-in Password "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-25 14:43 +0100
      Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-01-26 22:57 +1100
        Re: Turning off the Log-in Password T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-26 05:06 -0800
          Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-01-28 23:39 +1100
            Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-28 13:48 +0000
              Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-01 22:26 +1100
                Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-02-01 11:40 +0000
                Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-01 16:10 +0000
                Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-02-01 17:44 +0000
    Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-01-26 23:01 +1100
      Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-26 14:54 +0000
        Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Herbert Kleebauer <klee@unibwm.de> - 2025-01-26 17:55 +0100
          Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-26 18:19 +0000
            Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-01-26 18:33 +0000
              Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-26 19:46 +0000
                Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-26 20:11 +0000
                Re: Turning off the Log-in Password "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-26 23:04 +0100
                Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-27 11:16 +0000
                Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-27 13:15 -0500
                Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-27 18:49 +0000
                Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-27 14:33 -0500
                Re: Turning off the Log-in Password wasbit <wasbit@nowhere.com> - 2025-01-28 09:59 +0000
        Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-01-29 00:04 +1100
          Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-28 14:33 +0000
            Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-28 18:59 -0500
              Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-29 11:06 +0000
                Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-29 06:24 -0500
                Re: Turning off the Log-in Password "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-29 12:35 +0100
                Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-29 13:17 +0000
                Re: Turning off the Log-in Password "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-29 14:38 +0100
                Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-29 15:29 +0000
                Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-29 13:59 -0500
                Re: Turning off the Log-in Password "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-01 14:59 +0100
                Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-29 13:12 +0000
            Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-01 22:58 +1100
              Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-01 16:21 +0000
                Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-02 22:10 +1100
  Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-25 14:44 +0000
  Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-01-29 11:51 -0500
    Re: Turning off the Log-in Password Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-02-02 22:20 +1100

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