Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped

From	Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.devel
Subject	Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped
Date	2018-02-14 20:30 +0100
Message-ID	<vjaUG-oA-21@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
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On Wed, 2018-02-14 at 18:52 +0100, Vincent Bernat wrote:
>  ❦ 14 février 2018 16:09 +0200, Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi> :
> 
> > > > It's not only an infrastructure problem. If you Depends on X (>= 1.8),
> > > > this will be true with X 1:1.6 as well.
...
> That's exactly the point. You wanted X >= 1.8 and you get X 1.6.

I don't think that's what you said, or at least it was hard for me to
understand it that way.

> More concrete example (now a bit in the past). On Wheezy, you want to
> depend on a 1.8 JRE (you package independently). You put
> default-jre-headless (>= 1.8). Since you have forgotten about the epoch,
> this pulls Wheezy default-jre-headless (1:1.7-47+deb7u2). So you add the
> epoch to both your own package version default-jre-headless (1:1.8-1)
> and to the dependency. All good. You upgrade to Jessie and rebuild
> everything. Jessie comes with default-jre-headless (2:1.7-52) which
> shadows your default-jre-headless (1:1.8-1) package.

I think I now understand what you mean: you're actually worried not
that version numbers compare in illogical ways, but that people write
wrong versions in dependencies.

I don't think that has anything to do with epochs, and I don't think
getting rid of epochs would actually solve that problem. The root
cause for people getting version numbers wrong in dependencies, in my
expeience as a Debian developer, is that not all version numbers are
very simple, and that updating them is a manual task.

It's true that epochs make version numbers a little more complicated,
but not as much as sheer length. The median length of version numbers
in stretch is 8 characters, looking only at version numbers without an
epoch. Getting those wrong is very easy, even without epochs, and not
really harder than with epochs, in my experience. I admit an epoch may
trip someone, but it's not happening often enough that it's a problem
worth solving by getting rid of epochs, in my opinion.

I know of only two ways to get version numbers correct: automation and
testing. For shared libraries, we have automation. Maybe we can have
that for other classes of dependencies as well. For everything else,
we're going to need testing.

Automating all generation and updating of runtime and build time
depencies would be a good thing to have. Not an easy thing to achieve,
of course.

I, for one, would welcome a general AI for automating this. Skynet is
a worth it if we can get versioned dependencies right every time.

Thread

Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Jeremy Bicha <jbicha@debian.org> - 2018-02-05 16:50 +0100
  Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Matt Zagrabelny <mzagrabe@d.umn.edu> - 2018-02-05 17:00 +0100
  Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Mattia Rizzolo <mattia@debian.org> - 2018-02-05 17:10 +0100
    Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org> - 2018-02-06 09:40 +0100
      Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Mattia Rizzolo <mattia@debian.org> - 2018-02-06 14:30 +0100
        Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org> - 2018-02-06 23:30 +0100
          Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-02-07 13:20 +0100
          Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Jonathan McDowell <noodles@earth.li> - 2018-02-07 11:10 +0100
            Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Wouter Verhelst <wouter@debian.org> - 2018-02-07 18:00 +0100
          Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Seth Arnold <seth.arnold@canonical.com> - 2018-02-08 00:50 +0100
            Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2018-02-09 13:10 +0100
              Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Philipp Kern <pkern@debian.org> - 2018-02-09 13:50 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2018-02-09 17:10 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org> - 2018-02-09 18:20 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Philipp Kern <pkern@debian.org> - 2018-02-09 18:20 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2018-02-09 18:30 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Philipp Kern <pkern@debian.org> - 2018-02-09 19:00 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2018-02-09 19:20 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2018-02-09 20:30 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Jeremy Bicha <jbicha@debian.org> - 2018-02-09 20:40 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Guillem Jover <guillem@debian.org> - 2018-02-12 03:30 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Wouter Verhelst <wouter@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 13:00 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 14:00 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Jeremy Bicha <jbicha@ubuntu.com> - 2018-02-14 14:50 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 16:40 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 15:00 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi> - 2018-02-14 15:20 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 19:00 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi> - 2018-02-14 20:30 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 21:10 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 21:20 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 21:30 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 21:40 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 22:00 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 22:30 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 22:40 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 23:10 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 23:20 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 23:40 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Wouter Verhelst <wouter@debian.org> - 2018-02-15 11:20 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2018-02-15 11:50 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Wouter Verhelst <wouter@debian.org> - 2018-02-15 12:30 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Thibaut Paumard <thibaut@debian.org> - 2018-02-15 13:30 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Vincent Ladeuil <v.ladeuil+debian@free.fr> - 2018-02-15 15:10 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Guillem Jover <guillem@debian.org> - 2018-02-16 03:10 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Dimitri John Ledkov <xnox@debian.org> - 2018-03-12 12:40 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Cédric Boutillier <boutil@debian.org> - 2018-03-12 18:50 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2018-02-15 01:00 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 21:50 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Matt Zagrabelny <mzagrabe@d.umn.edu> - 2018-02-14 21:50 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> - 2018-02-15 08:50 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped gregor herrmann <gregoa@debian.org> - 2018-02-15 09:00 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> - 2018-02-15 09:30 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Thibaut Paumard <thibaut@debian.org> - 2018-02-15 11:20 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped gregor herrmann <gregoa@debian.org> - 2018-02-15 13:10 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Thibaut Paumard <thibaut@debian.org> - 2018-02-15 13:40 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2018-02-15 14:20 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Thibaut Paumard <thibaut@debian.org> - 2018-02-15 15:30 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-02-15 14:20 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Wouter Verhelst <wouter@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 15:50 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 16:10 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 16:10 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 16:30 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 17:10 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2018-02-14 18:30 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Wouter Verhelst <wouter@debian.org> - 2018-02-15 11:20 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2018-02-14 15:10 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Ian Campbell <ijc@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 15:50 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2018-02-09 19:40 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Guillem Jover <guillem@debian.org> - 2018-02-12 03:20 +0100
      Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2018-02-06 14:40 +0100
        Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Mattia Rizzolo <mattia@debian.org> - 2018-02-06 15:00 +0100
    Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi> - 2018-02-06 14:40 +0100
      Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2018-02-06 15:20 +0100
      Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-02-12 09:40 +0100
    Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-02-06 14:40 +0100
      Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Mattia Rizzolo <mattia@debian.org> - 2018-02-06 15:00 +0100
        Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Chris Lamb <lamby@debian.org> - 2018-02-06 16:20 +0100
          Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped "Christian T. Steigies" <cts@debian.org> - 2018-02-07 14:00 +0100
            Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2018-02-07 15:00 +0100
              Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Ian Campbell <ijc@debian.org> - 2018-02-08 11:20 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org> - 2018-02-08 12:00 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Ian Campbell <ijc@debian.org> - 2018-02-09 21:00 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Chris Lamb <lamby@debian.org> - 2018-02-09 23:10 +0100
            Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org> - 2018-02-07 16:40 +0100
          Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org> - 2018-02-07 11:00 +0100
            Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Chris Lamb <lamby@debian.org> - 2018-02-07 11:50 +0100
              Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org> - 2018-02-07 12:30 +0100
    Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Jeremy Bicha <jbicha@debian.org> - 2018-03-28 22:20 +0200
      Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Chris Lamb <lamby@debian.org> - 2018-03-29 00:00 +0200
      Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> - 2018-03-29 00:30 +0200
      Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Mattia Rizzolo <mattia@debian.org> - 2018-03-29 01:00 +0200
      Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped "Christian T. Steigies" <cts@debian.org> - 2018-03-29 19:10 +0200
        Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2018-03-29 20:00 +0200
        Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2018-03-30 13:30 +0200
          Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped "Christian T. Steigies" <cts@debian.org> - 2018-04-02 20:40 +0200
            Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2018-04-02 21:10 +0200
            Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2018-04-02 21:50 +0200
              Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2018-04-03 05:10 +0200
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped James McCoy <jamessan@debian.org> - 2018-04-03 05:20 +0200
              Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped "Christian T. Steigies" <cts@debian.org> - 2018-04-07 20:10 +0200
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2018-04-09 15:30 +0200

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