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Groups > comp.lang.c++ > #120859
| From | "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c++ |
| Subject | Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" |
| Date | 2024-11-08 14:58 -0800 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <vgm528$3d2at$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (13 earlier) <da09f7379bfc1675ebedbc471af3e6467739640a.camel@gmail.com> <vgm26b$3cdkg$1@dont-email.me> <48b27c2bb42d6ae1c4fcd6dba2d4102ca2c19bfa.camel@gmail.com> <vgm3qh$3cunt$1@dont-email.me> <774ef9f5e21d99eb91bf912161124670576d722e.camel@gmail.com> |
On 11/8/2024 2:47 PM, wij wrote: > On Fri, 2024-11-08 at 14:37 -0800, Chris M. Thomasson wrote: >> On 11/8/2024 2:35 PM, wij wrote: >>> On Fri, 2024-11-08 at 14:09 -0800, Chris M. Thomasson wrote: >>>> On 11/8/2024 2:02 PM, wij wrote: >>>>> On Fri, 2024-11-08 at 13:27 -0800, Chris M. Thomasson wrote: >>>>>> On 11/8/2024 1:18 PM, wij wrote: >>>>>>> On Fri, 2024-11-08 at 12:46 -0800, Chris M. Thomasson wrote: >>>>>>>> On 11/8/2024 6:54 AM, Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Fri, 08 Nov 2024 14:48:16 GMT >>>>>>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) boring babbled: >>>>>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes: >>>>>>>>>>> On 10/30/2024 11:56 AM, jseigh wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/28/24 12:25, jseigh wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> ... >>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole nullable pointer thing was a unrelated spin off of a >>>>>>>>>>>>> solution I did for addressing pointer provenance as discussed in >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://lwn.net/Articles/993484/ in the comments. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The nullable pointer solution I proposed is not super clear >>>>>>>>>>>>> as it depends on behavior not presently in c++ so hard to >>>>>>>>>>>>> show how the solution would work. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> At any rate, I don't have problems with nullable pointers or >>>>>>>>>>>>> dealing with pointer provenance, and I don't have spare >>>>>>>>>>>>> cycles to implement solutions for the latter, solutions I >>>>>>>>>>>>> don't need. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I worked on this some more so I've gotten a better idea of >>>>>>>>>>>> what they mean by pointer provenance. I don't think will >>>>>>>>>>>> solve all the issues they think it will. I can come up >>>>>>>>>>>> with some pretty trivial examples that will break their >>>>>>>>>>>> proposed solutions. I think they are unicorn hunting here. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> One of the issues they brought up is the ABA problem. Yet >>>>>>>>>>>> C/C++ has abjectly refused to support 50 year old hardware >>>>>>>>>>>> features that would help for some ABA issues. Kind of hard >>>>>>>>>>>> to take the pointer provenance problem seriously. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Joe Seigh >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> What is the ABA problem ? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Lynn >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABA_problem >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Why's it a problem? Its why mutexes exist. Why would anyone expect non >>>>>>>>> synchronised RW memory access to work? The exact same problem occurs >>>>>>>>> in databases with dirty reads. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Humm... Not sure what to make of that comment. Have you ever >>>>>>>> experimented with lock-free algorithms? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Why is it on topic? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If "lock-free algorithms" is on topic, why just turn off multi-tasking? >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I am not exactly sure what you mean by your question wrt "why just turn >>>>>> off multi-tasking"? Just use a single thread in your program? >>>>> >>>>> Yes, early threads are actually a single thread, where lock is not necessary. >>>> >>>> I am not sure what you mean by "early threads". Can you clarify a bit? >>>> Thanks. >>> >>> By early, I mean in DOS days. There was also such thread in Linux, I think it >>> is called Cooperative multitasking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative_multitasking >>> >>>>> This remind me of a problem of the 'language'. Why we can't say: >>>>> >>>>> thread void f(Arg arg1); // 'thread' is keyword >>>>> >>>>> instead of lots of "weird" syntax, if we want to talk about "language"? >>>> >>>> C++ threading is fairly "flexible", well, imho. Wrt C11 threads its akin >>>> to PThreads. Well, minus the fine grain control we have wrt the "newer" >>>> standards... C++/C 11 and such. The DWCAS issue aside for a moment, its >>>> not all that bad. >>>> >>> >>> If so, use pthread to invent what you want, in stead of too many 'weird' modifications. >>> All are confined in your source. it should be easier to manage and less work and errors. >>> >> >> pthreads does not provide standard membars and atomics... C/C++11 does. > > I don't use std::atomic. I don't have memory I need it. > But I think using std::atomic and pthread is compatible (there might be 'language' problems > I don't know. Or it might be solvable). > Well, it might work wrt using std::atomic with pthreads. But, keep in mind that Pthreads does not know shit about std::atomic and vise versa.
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"Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2024-10-08 20:40 -0500
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-09 14:14 +0300
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2024-10-09 15:02 -0500
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-09 23:46 +0300
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-10 08:34 +0000
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-10 12:51 +0300
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-10 10:20 +0000
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-10 13:44 +0300
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-10 10:50 +0000
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-10 14:10 +0300
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-10 13:11 +0000
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-10 16:54 +0300
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2024-10-10 18:08 +0300
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-10-10 23:37 +0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2024-10-10 19:03 +0300
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-10 19:11 +0300
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-10 20:01 +0200
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-10-10 07:56 -0700
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-10 18:56 +0300
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-10-20 10:13 -0700
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-10-10 12:13 -0400
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-10-10 18:29 +0200
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-20 12:37 +0100
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-20 14:46 +0300
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-20 14:23 +0000
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-10-27 19:09 -0400
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-10-27 20:40 -0400
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-10-28 09:22 +0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-10-27 21:18 -0700
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-10-28 12:25 -0400
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-10-30 12:56 -0400
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-10-30 12:50 -0700
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-10-30 16:31 -0400
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-04 12:47 -0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-11-07 07:02 -0500
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-07 20:14 -0600
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-11-08 09:40 -0500
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-11-08 14:48 +0000
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-11-08 14:54 +0000
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 12:40 -0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-11-09 12:01 +0000
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 12:39 -0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-11-11 09:56 +0000
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-11 13:36 -0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-11-12 08:28 +0000
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-12 13:56 -0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-12 13:59 -0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-11-12 16:20 -0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-11-10 13:02 -0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-11-10 13:05 -0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 12:46 -0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 05:18 +0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 13:23 -0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 05:25 +0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 13:27 -0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 06:02 +0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 14:09 -0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 06:35 +0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 14:37 -0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 06:47 +0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 14:58 -0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 07:09 +0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 15:35 -0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-11-08 23:50 +0000
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 18:11 -0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 14:39 -0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 06:58 +0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 15:01 -0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 07:13 +0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 15:40 -0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 08:19 +0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 18:15 -0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-11-09 16:23 +0000
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 12:42 -0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-11-09 23:23 +0000
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2024-11-10 11:00 +0200
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-12 16:56 -0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-12 16:59 -0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-12 17:05 -0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-11-09 12:01 +0000
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-11-09 12:01 +0000
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 12:50 -0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-11-04 06:59 -0800
Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-11-30 10:03 -0500
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