Groups > linux.debian.user > #191877

Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown

From	Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.user
Subject	Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown
Date	2018-02-03 09:10 +0100
Message-ID	<vf13z-Ce-1@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
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On 2 February 2018 at 04:35, Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> On Thu, Feb 01, 2018 at 11:53:36AM +0000, Michael Fothergill wrote:
> > Thus for anyone in the entire world who is new to linux,the most
> > efficient route at present could well be to install Fedora and be
> > stable and spectre protected out of the box rather than taking on
> > the indefatigable odyssey of installing Debian and waiting for
> > Debian security team to find solutions at whatever pace is
> > possible given the way the distro is currenty set up.
>
> "The way the distro is [currently] set up" is that the upstream
> Linux kernel project will provide backports to long term supported
> kernel versions and these will get folded into Debian stable as a
> security update. What you call an "indefatigable odyssey" will for
> the average Debian user be an unremarkable kernel upgrade.

I think it could be a remarkable or noticeable thing  to a new debian or
linux user who
was interested to apply the latest available solution for e.g. spectre
together
with meltdown promptly to relatively standard installation.

If that is possible now in e.g. Fedora it is not unreasonable to want it to
exist
in Debian from my point of view.

Perhaps the average debian user may not be that bothered about the problem,
but a new debian user really did take the trouble to email on the site here
and ask us about this very thing.

And so, as peculiar as it seem to some people, I am
trying to consider what would work practically for such individuals.

And there
> will hopefully be minimal breakage because a lot of people will have
> tested it first.
>

If it took e.g. 2 years of testing it before it would be released I am
sure it would be fine in terms of stability etc.
But would that be efficient here?

>
> You appear to have a level of paranoia that requires you to build
> the latest kernel release with the latest GCC, and that has
> motivated you to learn how to do that on Debian, but I feel sure
> that that is not where the average Debian user is coming from.
>

Paranoia was not the motivation on my part at all here.  I could see that
kernel installations
was easy in gentoo, and this prompted me to see how easy it would be in
Debian.

>
> As you've seen, the method is there for you to do what you have
> decided you need to do. Or for the curious who want a learning
> experience.

I think the method is not really fit for purpose at present.

> But with Meltdown dealt with by KPTI (already in the
> stable release) and the obvious javascript issues worked around by
> the browsers, you have to weigh up the risk of pushing hasty fixes
> into a stable kernel (and GCC) release.
>

For me that is too much "odyssey" for the maximal efficiency for new
users.

>
> I don't think the sky has fallen just yet but if you do want to see
> the sky fall, push out a buggy Debian stable kernel package.

I don't see why it would need to be that buggy really.

> Debian
> already has a place to test the latest and greatest (and most
> broken) versions of packages and it is not the stable release that
> new users are directed at.
>

Do you mean that new users on average want to install testing etc rather
than stable?

>
> Cheers,
> Andy
>

In general I think some psychotherapy is required to reduce the
indefatigability factor here ,
and odyssey minimisation would be a good idea.

Cheers

MF

> --
> https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
>
>

Thread

Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Dextin Jerafmel <jerafmel@yahoo.com> - 2018-01-29 09:10 +0100
  Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2018-01-29 10:00 +0100
    Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown arne <sp113438@telfort.nl> - 2018-01-29 10:50 +0100
      Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Lange <klappnase@freenet.de> - 2018-01-29 11:50 +0100
        Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown arne <sp113438@telfort.nl> - 2018-01-29 13:30 +0100
    Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-01-29 10:50 +0100
    Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-01-29 11:20 +0100
      Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2018-01-29 12:40 +0100
        Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-01-29 14:30 +0100
          Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2018-01-29 14:50 +0100
        Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-01-29 14:30 +0100
          Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2018-01-29 15:00 +0100
            Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2018-01-29 15:30 +0100
              Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-01-29 16:50 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-01-29 17:20 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-01-29 18:40 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Lange <klappnase@freenet.de> - 2018-01-29 19:10 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2018-01-29 19:40 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Lange <klappnase@freenet.de> - 2018-01-29 20:00 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2018-01-30 20:40 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Lange <klappnase@freenet.de> - 2018-01-30 22:50 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2018-01-30 23:10 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Elimar Riesebieter <riesebie@lxtec.de> - 2018-01-30 16:30 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2018-01-30 17:20 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2018-01-30 18:00 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2018-01-31 14:50 +0100
          Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Carl Fink <carl@finknetwork.com> - 2018-01-29 15:50 +0100
            Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-01-29 18:40 +0100
    Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Lange <klappnase@freenet.de> - 2018-01-29 11:30 +0100
      Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2018-01-29 13:40 +0100
        Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-01-29 14:00 +0100
      Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2018-01-29 14:10 +0100
        Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Lange <klappnase@freenet.de> - 2018-01-29 19:20 +0100
          Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-01-29 19:40 +0100
            Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Lange <klappnase@freenet.de> - 2018-01-29 20:00 +0100
        Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2018-01-30 10:50 +0100
          Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Lange <klappnase@freenet.de> - 2018-01-30 12:20 +0100
            Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-01-30 14:30 +0100
              Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-01-30 14:50 +0100
              Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown "tv.debian@googlemail.com" <tv.debian@googlemail.com> - 2018-01-30 16:40 +0100
              Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2018-01-31 19:20 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-01-31 19:30 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Lange <klappnase@freenet.de> - 2018-01-31 19:40 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2018-01-31 23:40 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2018-01-31 23:50 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2018-02-01 00:10 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2018-02-01 00:20 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2018-02-01 00:50 +0100
              Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2018-02-01 13:10 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2018-02-02 05:40 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2018-02-03 09:10 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-02-03 15:50 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2018-02-03 16:40 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2018-02-03 18:10 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-02-03 18:30 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2018-02-03 23:50 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-02-03 18:20 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2018-02-03 23:10 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2018-02-03 23:10 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2018-02-04 00:20 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2018-02-04 01:10 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2018-02-04 16:30 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2018-02-05 00:10 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2018-02-05 00:10 +0100
                Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-02-04 05:30 +0100
    comment and new question--when do upgrades take effect  (was: Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-01-29 14:20 +0100
      Re: comment and new question--when do upgrades take effect  (was:  Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown) Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2018-01-29 14:50 +0100
      Re: comment and new question--when do upgrades take effect  (was:  Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-01-29 14:50 +0100
        Re: comment and new question--when do upgrades take effect (was: Re:  Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown) Boyan Penkov <boyan.penkov@gmail.com> - 2018-01-29 15:40 +0100
          Re: comment and new question--when do upgrades take effect Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2018-01-30 00:20 +0100
            Re: comment and new question--when do upgrades take effect Boyan Penkov <boyan.penkov@gmail.com> - 2018-01-30 01:00 +0100
        Re: comment and new question--when do upgrades take effect  (was:  Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-01-29 17:20 +0100
      Re: comment and new question--when do upgrades take effect  (was:  Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2018-01-29 15:20 +0100
        Re: comment and new question--when do upgrades take effect Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-01-29 15:40 +0100
          Re: comment and new question--when do upgrades take effect Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2018-01-29 15:40 +0100
            Re: comment and new question--when do upgrades take effect <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-01-29 16:00 +0100
              Re: comment and new question--when do upgrades take effect Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-01-29 16:20 +0100
                Re: comment and new question--when do upgrades take effect David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-01-29 16:50 +0100
        Re: comment and new question--when do upgrades take effect (side  question) Neo <neo@spacerat.ch> - 2018-01-29 17:10 +0100
      Re: comment and new question--when do upgrades take effect  (was:  Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown) Michael Lange <klappnase@freenet.de> - 2018-01-29 19:20 +0100
  Re: Kernel for Spectre and Meltdown Bastien Durel <bastien@durel.org> - 2018-01-29 10:50 +0100

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