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Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie?

From Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups comp.theory, sci.logic
Subject Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie?
Date 2024-06-23 14:20 -0400
Organization i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID <v59p13$smd5$1@i2pn2.org> (permalink)
References <v598l4$c4if$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 6/23/24 9:40 AM, olcott wrote:
> _DDD()
> [00002172] 55               push ebp
> [00002173] 8bec             mov ebp,esp
> [00002175] 6872210000       push 00002172 ; push DDD
> [0000217a] e853f4ffff       call 000015d2 ; call HHH0
> [0000217f] 83c404           add esp,+04
> [00002182] 5d               pop ebp
> [00002183] c3               ret
> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
> 
> According to the semantics of the x86 programming language
> when DDD correctly emulated by H0 calls H0(DDD) this call
> cannot possibly return.
> 
> Likewise according to the semantics of arithmetic for
> decimal integers: 2 + 3 = 5.
> 
> Anyone disagreeing with these two statements is WRONG.
> 

NOw, if you REALLY mean just can H0 simulate this input to a final 
state, the answer is WHO CARES.

But I will put out a few comments on errors in your presentation\.

First, if you ONLY have the bytes presented, then the answer becomes 
trivial, as H0 HAS to stop emulating when it gets to the call 
instruction, as there is no data at address 000015d2 defined to simulate.

This means you need to fix your problem statement to include the 
instructions of HHH0, and everything that it calls as part of the 
"input", or your question isn't the one you mean to be asking.

Of course, this means that each HHH0 that you try, is processing a 
DIFFERENT input, so you can't argue from one about the behavior of a 
different one.

Second, you forgot to specify what HHH0 has as requirements. Once you 
include its code, so can simulate it, the "non-pure" function tricks 
allow it to correctly simulate to the return instruction.

Reminder, you complain when we point out assumptions made on previous 
statements that you didn't want to carry forward, so you can't also 
complain about us forgetting about requirements that you didn't bring 
forward.

If you want to pull in the past, we can just point out that we KNOW you 
are talking about a Halt Decider, and that your question is the wrong 
question for a Halt decider.

So, your statement is wrong for two logical reasons as described above, 
so your statement that anyone who disagrees is wrong is just wrong.

You don't know how to properly state a problem.

The last point to make, is that this is NOT a "proof" but just an 
argument claiming something should be obviously true.

That may be a "proof" in the wild west of Philosophy, but it isn't in 
the realm of Formal Logic, which is what the field you are talking about is.

So, you are making a statement, that when fixed to correct the deficits 
in it, becomes a statement that might be plausably true, but not proven.

A proof can likely be made, but it seems that is beyond your ability 
since you didn't even try, Of course, without the second fix, the 
statement is just false, and without the first fix, the statment is 
meaningless, as of course you can't simulate to a return from a call 
that you are unable to simulate past.

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Thread

DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 08:40 -0500
  Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? (typo corrected) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 09:00 -0500
  Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 14:20 -0400
    Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 16:41 -0500
      Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 17:49 -0400
        Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 17:04 -0500
          Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 18:35 -0400
            Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 17:45 -0500
              Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 18:58 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 18:34 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 19:44 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 19:08 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 20:24 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 20:00 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 21:13 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 20:20 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 21:30 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 20:36 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 22:00 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 21:09 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 22:16 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 21:27 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 22:31 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 21:38 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 21:52 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 23:11 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 22:26 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 07:02 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 08:39 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 19:17 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 18:38 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 19:57 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 08:42 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 19:19 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 18:43 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 19:59 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 19:02 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 20:06 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 19:34 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 20:54 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 20:05 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 21:13 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 20:22 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 21:24 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure (typo) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 20:07 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure (typo) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 21:22 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 20:32 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 21:51 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 20:55 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 22:02 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 21:17 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 22:25 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 21:21 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 22:26 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 21:38 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 22:48 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 21:52 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-25 06:59 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 22:13 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-25 07:04 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 08:02 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-25 21:47 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 20:59 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-25 22:17 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 21:21 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-25 22:54 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 22:25 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-25 23:32 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 22:37 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 06:58 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 08:33 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 19:41 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 18:50 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 19:52 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 19:19 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 20:38 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 19:24 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 20:40 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 20:12 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 21:21 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 21:10 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 22:38 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 21:46 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 23:16 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 22:37 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-27 07:34 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-27 08:21 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-27 19:57 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-27 22:25 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-28 07:44 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-28 07:28 -0500
                Re: Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-28 12:58 +0000
                Re: Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-28 09:33 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-28 23:49 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 23:09 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-25 09:14 +0000
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 20:33 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 22:03 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 21:13 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 22:28 -0400
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-24 19:44 +0000
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 15:05 -0500
                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 19:19 -0400
  Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 07:02 -0400
    Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 08:48 -0500
      Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 19:47 -0400

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