Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
| From | olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.logic, comp.theory |
| Subject | Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems |
| Date | 2024-06-10 11:09 -0500 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <v478g9$hcgj$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (8 earlier) <v4508h$3egpa$11@i2pn2.org> <v45pfb$3ph0$1@dont-email.me> <v45q1d$3h641$7@i2pn2.org> <v45qvp$41qf$1@dont-email.me> <v46na2$3ifov$2@i2pn2.org> |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
On 6/10/2024 6:16 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 6/9/24 11:12 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 6/9/2024 9:56 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 6/9/24 10:47 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 6/9/2024 2:36 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 6/9/24 3:08 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/9/2024 1:54 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/9/24 2:40 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/9/2024 1:29 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/9/24 2:13 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/9/2024 1:08 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/9/24 1:18 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/9/2024 10:36 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *This has direct application to undecidable decision problems*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> When we ask the question: What is a truthmaker? The generic
>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever makes an expression of language true <is> its
>>>>>>>>>>>>> truthmaker. This
>>>>>>>>>>>>> entails that if there is nothing in the universe that makes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> expression X
>>>>>>>>>>>>> true then X lacks a truthmaker and is untrue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> X may be untrue because X is false. In that case ~X has a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> truthmaker.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now we have the means to unequivocally define truth-bearer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> X is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> truth-bearer iff (if and only if) X or ~X has a truthmaker.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been working in this same area as a non-academician
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a few
>>>>>>>>>>>>> years. I have only focused on expressions of language that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are {true on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the basis of their meaning}.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Now that truthmaker and truthbearer are fully anchored it is
>>>>>>>>>>>> easy to see
>>>>>>>>>>>> that self-contradictory expressions are simply not
>>>>>>>>>>>> truthbearers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> “This sentence is not true” can't be true because that would
>>>>>>>>>>>> make it
>>>>>>>>>>>> untrue and it can't be false because that would make it true.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Within the the definition of truthmaker specified above:
>>>>>>>>>>>> “this sentence
>>>>>>>>>>>> has no truthmaker” is simply not a truthbearer. It can't be
>>>>>>>>>>>> true within
>>>>>>>>>>>> the above specified definition of truthmaker because this
>>>>>>>>>>>> would make it
>>>>>>>>>>>> false. It can't be false because that makes
>>>>>>>>>>>> it true.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Unless the system is inconsistent, in which case they can be.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Note,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When I specify the ultimate foundation of all truth then this
>>>>>>>>>> does apply to truth in logic, truth in math and truth in science.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nope. Not for Formal system, which have a specific definition
>>>>>>>>> of its truth-makers, unless you let your definition become
>>>>>>>>> trivial for Formal logic where a "truth-makers" is what has
>>>>>>>>> been defined to be the "truth-makers" for the system.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Formal systems are free to define their own truthmakers.
>>>>>>>> When these definitions result in inconsistency they are
>>>>>>>> proved to be incorrect.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, you admit that your definition is just inconsistant, as it
>>>>>>> says FOR ALL and then you admit it isn't FOR ALL
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And a formal system proven inconsistant isn't necessarily
>>>>>>> incorrect, just inconsistent.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To the extent that they define inconsistency they
>>>>>> are not truth-makers.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> YOU hae a TYPE ERROR in your statement.
>>>>>
>>>>> That just proves that YOUR logic is incorrect.
>>>>>
>>>>> How can a SYSTEM be a propsition?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Stopping at your first big mistake*
>>>>
>>>> When we ask the question: What is a truthmaker? The generic answer
>>>> is whatever makes an expression of language true <is> its truthmaker.
>>>>
>>>> A cat in your living room is not a proposition yet makes the
>>>> sentence: "there is a cat in my living room" true, thus <is> its
>>>> truthmaker.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Which isn't a formal system.
>>>
>>
>> A cat in your living room <is> a truthmaker and is not
>> a formal system.
>>
>
> So, you agree your definiton doesn't work on formal systems?
>
I never agreed to anything like that.
When we define truthmaker this self-evidently true way:
When we ask the question: What is a truthmaker? The generic answer is
whatever makes an expression of language true <is> its truthmaker.
This entails that if there is nothing in the universe that makes
expression X true then X lacks a truthmaker and is untrue.
Then it is self-evident that this <is> the way that truth really works.
--
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
Back to sci.logic | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread
Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 10:36 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 12:18 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-09 14:08 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 13:13 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-09 14:29 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 13:40 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-09 14:54 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 14:08 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-09 15:36 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 21:47 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-09 22:56 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 22:12 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-10 07:16 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-10 11:09 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-10 23:32 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-11 12:30 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-11 19:22 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-11 20:43 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-11 22:34 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-11 21:58 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-11 23:01 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-11 22:20 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 07:33 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 10:40 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 19:49 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 19:44 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 20:57 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 20:37 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 21:53 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 21:01 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 22:21 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 21:32 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 22:42 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 21:53 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 23:15 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 22:17 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 23:51 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 23:01 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-13 07:30 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-13 08:32 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-13 22:45 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-13 22:50 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-14 07:39 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-14 08:58 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-10 09:52 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-09 23:00 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-11 11:06 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-11 21:44 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-11 20:57 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-11 22:37 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-11 22:17 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 07:33 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 08:05 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 19:55 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 20:16 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 21:48 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-09 17:40 +0000
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 12:52 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-09 14:08 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 13:10 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-09 14:31 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 13:48 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-09 14:57 -0400
csiph-web