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Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems

From Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups sci.logic, comp.theory
Subject Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems
Date 2024-06-12 21:53 -0400
Organization i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID <v4djfe$3qbnd$6@i2pn2.org> (permalink)
References (23 earlier) <v4cfhu$1nhr0$1@dont-email.me> <v4dc5j$3qbnc$5@i2pn2.org> <v4dfdo$1te0b$2@dont-email.me> <v4dg4v$3qbnd$3@i2pn2.org> <v4digg$1tsdf$4@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 6/12/24 9:37 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/12/2024 7:57 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 6/12/24 8:44 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 6/12/2024 6:49 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/12/24 11:40 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 6/12/2024 6:33 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/11/24 11:20 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/11/2024 10:01 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/11/24 10:58 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/11/2024 9:34 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/11/24 9:43 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/11/2024 6:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/11/24 1:30 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/10/2024 10:32 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/10/24 12:09 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When we ask the question: What is a truthmaker? The 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generic answer is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever makes an expression of language true <is> its 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truthmaker.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This entails that if there is nothing in the universe 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that makes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expression X true then X lacks a truthmaker and is untrue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then it is self-evident that this <is> the way that truth 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, how does that apply to something that isn't a part of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "the universe", as Formal Logic systems are not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *STOPPING AT YOUR FIRST RIDICULOUSLY HUGE MISTAKE*
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words you are saying that formal system have never
>>>>>>>>>>>>> existing in any way what-so-ever?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nope, and I don't see where you get that from, except to not 
>>>>>>>>>>>> understand the meaning of a universe.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The universe is all of space and time[a] and their contents.
>>>>>>>>>>> It comprises all of existence, any fundamental interaction, 
>>>>>>>>>>> physical
>>>>>>>>>>> process and physical constant, and therefore all forms of 
>>>>>>>>>>> energy and
>>>>>>>>>>> matter, and the structures they form, from sub-atomic 
>>>>>>>>>>> particles to
>>>>>>>>>>> entire galactic filaments. 
>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> AKA *EVERYTHING* Duh !
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But it is only ONE of an infinite number of such systems.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So I have to dumb it down for you: *EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Let me dumb it down for you:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, where are the Natural Numbers is THIS UNIVERSE?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How can the finite universe hold all of the infinite set?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How about the bigger set of the Reals?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Answer me please.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Algorithmic compression.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And where does THAT exist as something physical in the universe?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Where did I ever say that I am restricting this to physical things?
>>>>> Truth itself is a pure mental abstraction.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How many times did you reference "Physical" in this statement from 
>>>> above?
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The universe is all of space and time[a] and their contents.
>>>>> It comprises all of existence, any fundamental interaction, physical
>>>>> process and physical constant, and therefore all forms of energy and
>>>>> matter, and the structures they form, from sub-atomic particles to
>>>>> entire galactic filaments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe
>>>>>
>>>>> AKA *EVERYTHING* Duh !
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What in that refers to anything not related to physical objects and 
>>>> their interactions?
>>>>
>>>> Where do "Natural Numbers" fit in there?
>>>>
>>>
>>> In other words you are trying to get away with saying that the
>>> concept and definition of natural number is not in the set of
>>> all things thus has no existence what-s-ever thus you never
>>> asked that question.
>>>
>>
>> Nope. The concept and definition of natural numbers exist, but doesn't 
>> derive from any part of the "universe".
>>
>> Note, they don't "exist" as a substance, only as a concept, and the 
>> universe is substance.
>>
> 
> OF EVERYTHING IF THERE IS NOTHING THAT MAKES AN EXPRESSION
> OF LANGUAGE X TRUE THENN (THEN AND ONLY THEN) X HAS NO TRUTH-MAKER.

And how can we tell that there is nothing that makes the expression of 
language true?

Do you mean that Russel's Teapot has a truth-maker, because we can not 
show that there is nothing that makes it true?



> 
> FOR THE SAME X
> OF EVERYTHING IF THERE IS NOTHING THAT MAKES AN EXPRESSION
> OF LANGUAGE ~X TRUE THENN (THEN AND ONLY THEN) X IS NOT A TRUTH-BEARER.


So, how do we know about that?

proving non-existance is very hard.

> 
> 
> 
>>> https://liarparadox.org/GodsPlan.gif
>>> The fourth and sixth step of the above tree divides
>>> reality into physical existence and conceptual existence.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> And why do you think that is the actual order things happened?
>>
>> And what does that have to do with your claim that Natural Numbers 
>> exist in the universe.
>

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Thread

Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 10:36 -0500
  Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 12:18 -0500
    Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-09 14:08 -0400
      Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 13:13 -0500
        Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-09 14:29 -0400
          Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 13:40 -0500
            Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-09 14:54 -0400
              Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 14:08 -0500
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-09 15:36 -0400
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 21:47 -0500
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-09 22:56 -0400
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 22:12 -0500
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-10 07:16 -0400
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-10 11:09 -0500
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-10 23:32 -0400
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-11 12:30 -0500
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-11 19:22 -0400
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-11 20:43 -0500
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-11 22:34 -0400
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-11 21:58 -0500
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-11 23:01 -0400
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-11 22:20 -0500
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 07:33 -0400
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 10:40 -0500
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 19:49 -0400
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 19:44 -0500
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 20:57 -0400
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 20:37 -0500
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 21:53 -0400
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 21:01 -0500
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 22:21 -0400
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 21:32 -0500
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 22:42 -0400
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 21:53 -0500
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 23:15 -0400
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 22:17 -0500
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 23:51 -0400
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 23:01 -0500
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-13 07:30 -0400
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-13 08:32 -0500
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-13 22:45 -0400
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-13 22:50 -0500
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-14 07:39 -0400
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-14 08:58 -0500
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-10 09:52 -0500
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-09 23:00 -0400
            Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-11 11:06 -0500
              Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-11 21:44 -0400
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-11 20:57 -0500
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-11 22:37 -0400
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-11 22:17 -0500
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 07:33 -0400
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 08:05 -0500
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 19:55 -0400
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 20:16 -0500
                Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 21:48 -0400
  Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-09 17:40 +0000
    Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 12:52 -0500
  Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-09 14:08 -0400
    Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 13:10 -0500
      Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-09 14:31 -0400
        Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 13:48 -0500
          Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-09 14:57 -0400

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